recent administration of his Predecessor, Then there MR. P. MARTIN said, he agreed in the statement that under the existing law the Lord Lieutenant had power by proclamation to prohibit the holding of a meeting, and that it was in the interest of peace and good order that his order should be obeyed. Proclamations of that character had been issued by the late and many previous Viceroys. But this clause enlarged and extended that power which the Lord Lieutenant now had, made his arbitrary will the sole test of the legality of the exercise of that power, and would render it an offence in anyone to attend once the order was made. At present, it was true, the Lord Lieutenant, after proclamation made, might send down and disperse a meeting; but, though it was the duty of every subject of the Queen to leave quietly on request of the lawful authority, yet the proclamation did not, under the existing law, prevent him from thereafter contesting the legality of the order. That he was correct in the view were special provisions, there must be a special notification to those persons by a Justice of the Peace. That section conclusively showed that the framers of the Act meant the misdemeanour to be constituted by the fact of notification. But in this Bill the offence was made punishable on proof simply that the order had been made, and the fact of attending at the meeting. The instant the proclamation was made from Dublin Castle, although it might not be notified to any person, say, at 4 o'clock in the afternoon, persons attending a meeting held at half-past 4 in some distant part of the country would be held guilty and liable to six months' imprisonment with hard labour. When he found that the framers of the Act of 1833-the most stringent Act ever placed on the Statute Book with respect to Ireland-did not give such power, he thought it necessary to introduce a safeguard in the way suggested in the Amendment which stood in his name. He thought the Government could not refuse to amend this clause of the Bill. In reference to the allusion which had been made by the Secretary of State for the Home Department to the name of Lord Althorp, let him remind the Committee that though the Act of 1833 was introduced when Lord Althorp was Prime Minister, yet, as he believed, it was in consequence of the passing of that Act and his disgust with its unnecessary stringency that Lord Althorp had found himself compelled to retire from the Cabinet. MR. BIGGAR said, that owing to the which he submitted as to the present absence of the right hon. and learned limital on the power of the Lord Lieu- Gentleman (Sir William Harcourt), who tenant, and the effect of its exercise, had special charge of the Bill, the Comwas shown in the most conclusive man-mittee were not in a position to listen to ner by the manner in which framers of the Act of 1833 dealt with the subject of illegal meetings. Unquestionably, in that Act, as in the present Bill, a new offence was created; but it was created, not by virtue of the issue of the proclamation, as was proposed in this Bill, but by the notification of the fact of the proclamation. That was shown by the 2nd section of the Statute, which said arguments upon the question, and he thought the best thing now to do was to report Progress. It was exceedingly inconvenient to have a discussion on an Amendment when the Minister in special charge of the Bill was not present to be influenced by the arguments advanced, and to reply to them on the one hand, or to give way to their arguments and amend the Bill on the other. He therefore moved to report Progress. Motion made, and Question, "That the Chairman do report Progress, and ask leave to sit again,"-(Mr. Biggar,) -put, and agreed to. Committee report Progress; to sit | especially information with respect to the again To-morrow. MINUTES.]-PUBLIC BILLS-First Reading Customs and Inland Revenue Buildings (Ireland) (142); Public Schools (Scotland) Teachers (143); Local Government (Gas) Provisional Order* (144); Local Government Provisional Orders (No. 7) * (145); Local Government Provisional Order (No. 8)* (146); Local Government Provisional Orders (No. 9) (147); Pier and Harbour Provisional Orders* (148); Tramways Provisional Orders (No. 3) (149); Local Government Provisional Orders (No. 4)* (150). Second Reading-Entail (Scotland) (115). (140). * course which Her Majesty's Government propose to take with reference to recent events in Alexandria and the state of things there? EARL GRANVILLE: My Lords, in answer to the noble Marquess, I have to state that a telegram was received yesterday from Alexandria which reported that all was quiet. The town was patrolled day and night, and the troops were apparently doing their duty. The Khedive and Dervish Pasha had assured the Consuls of their confidence in the maintenance of public order. There was a considerable panic among the Europeans, and numbers have taken refuge on board the iron-clads and on an Egyptian steamer. Arrangements have been made to have the refugees removed in merchant vessels. One has been taken up by the Admiral, another at Port Said is to be sent at once to Alexandria, and two more are being engaged. Sir Beauchamp Seymour has been asked to telegraph whether these are sufficient. Sir Edward Malet arrived at Alexandria yesterday. He telegraphed at 10.30 P.M. yesterday that at present the military are behaving well, and keeping order in the streets-apparently in earnest. As to the measures which the Government have taken, and propose to take, in connection with the European Powers and with Turkey, with regard to Egypt, I can well understand that your Lordships must feel great curiosity in the matter, but it is out of my power to give the House any further information at this moment. THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURY: My Lords, I have heard the statement of the noble Earl with very great regret. I can understand, with respect to the general policy being pursued in Egypt, that the time has probably not come for announcing the intentions of Her Majesty's GoVernment, or for discussing the expediency of the course which they propose to take. I can understand that, with respect to the relations that this country maintains with France, there must for the present be considerable reserve, though I hope it is fully understood by Her Majesty's Government, as well as by others, that we are free to obtain the objects of English policy alone, if we cannot attain them in concert with other Powers. But other more pressing matters have been going on, which Parliament can hardly 2 R pass over without notice, and with respect to which I think the reticence of Her Majesty's Government is misplaced. Great works of British industry are being destroyed; vast quantities of British capital are not only being imperilled, but investments that have developed during long years of confidence are being utterly destroyed, so that they cannot be restored again; and while the lives of British subjects, of British officials, of officers of the British Fleet are being sacrificed in a seaport town within sight of the Fleet, surely, my Lords, it is not too much that Parliament should ask to know what measures the Government propose to take for the protection of these imperilled interests and lives in this moment of acute crisis, and that your Lordships should ask for some explanation as to the position of the Fleet, and the functions which it is supposed to perform. For what was the Fleet sent to Alexandria? For what is it kept there? Many views could be advanced with respect to the object that the Fleet has to fulfil. It might be supposed that its object was to support the Government of the existing Viceroy; but that object it clearly has not fulfilled. It might be thought that it was to demonstrate the power of Great Britain; but it has demonstrated exactly the reverse. It might be supposed that its object was to enforce the demands which the Government have put forward in most peremptory language, and of which, according to their declarations, they are prepared to exact the fulfilment if necessary. Among those demands one for the removal of Arabi Pasha stands prominent; but he has not been removed; and, if we are not misinformed, he has been taken into counsel by the Representatives of the Sultan with the knowledge of the Representative of England, with a view to the maintenance of that order, which neither the Suzerain nor the Foreign Powers can maintain. The Fleet, therefore, has done nothing whatever to fulfil the pledge given by Her Majesty's Government that they would exact the fulfilment of their demands. It might be supposed that at least the Fleet would perform the humbler, but most useful and necessary, function of protecting British lives and property. But all that it has been able to do is to furnish a safe place from which British officers, powerless to prevent what has occurred, have been The Marquess of Salisbury able to witness the painful and revolting spectacle of British subjects slaughtered at the water's edge. My Lords, if these things are true, it becomes necessary to ask why the Fleet is there, and why it stays there? This is called a Naval Demonstration; but what does it demonstrate? Does it demonstrate anything else than the impotence of Great Britain and the feebleness of her Ministers? If it had not been for the Fleet, much of what has happened would not have occurred; though the Fleet has done nothing else, it has been very potent to inflame the passions of the Egyptian people. It is not too much to say that upon those who sent that Fleet there, without the resolution to follow up the act with the force necessary to give effect to their policy—that upon them lies the responsibility of the bloodshed which was caused by the passions which the presence of the Fleet has provoked? My Lords, with no wish to interfere with the course of the policy upon more lasting matters which will be pursued by Her Majesty's Government, and only desiring to know what provi sion they are taking to meet the actual crisis, and to protect lives and industry that are actually threatened, we have a right to call upon the Government for a more full declaration of their actions and intentions. It would, undoubtedly, be a very humiliating thing to withdraw the Fleet; but to leave it there to look on helplessly and passively, while British menaces are being disregarded and British policy frustrated-while the work which British industry has laboriously built up during long years and at great expense are being destroyed, and while British subjects are being slaughtered, is a lower, a still deeper depth of humiliation. EARL GRANVILLE: My Lords, at critical moments during the late Adminis tration I sometimes, but not in exaggerated numbers, put Questions to Her Majesty's Government; but in no instance did I insist upon having information when it was declared undesirable that it should be given. The noble Marquess, in making this violent attack Her upon Majesty's Government, has not given any indication of the measures which he would wish to see taken, otherwise than by suggesting that it would be desirable that we should separate ourselves from France, forbear to ally ourselves with THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURY: I said that it would be better that the Fleet should come away than that it should be the helpless and passive spectator of the destruction of British lives and property. other Powers, and withdraw our Fleet | noble Friend the desirability of allowing from Alexandria. [Cries of "No!"] a reasonably long period to elapse before The noble Marquess certainly said that the stage of Committee, so as to enable unless we were going to take active the House to consider the Bill carefully. measures in Alexandria, it would be Amongst other things, there was a power better that the Fleet should leave that in the measure very similar to the Settled place. Land Bill, which had passed through their Lordships' House, and was now in "another place." Under the present Bill, unless he were mistaken, the money produced from a sale in Scotland must be invested in the estate and be subject to the restrictions of the entail; but under the Settled Land Bill the money might be used for various other purposes-for example, the improvement of other land. He was by no means certain that the securities with regard to money produced by the sale of land were as wide as they should be in the present Bill. EARL GRANVILLE: My Lords, I deny that the Fleet is either helpless or passive. The noble Marquess, the other day, when he made a great condemnation of the policy of the Government, came before your Lordships with a telegram in his hand, and advised us to take immediate action by proceeding in a particular way in connection with the subject of certain earthworks at Alexandria. We, however, thought it more judicious to ascertain the views of those who were on the spot; and we found that the opinion of the Egyptian functionaries, of the English functionaries, and of our Admiral, was that we had better not take the sudden step recommended by the noble Marquess. The Admiral has a discretionary power to act; and I beg to say that I believe he will act in the way which may be most judicious. But we shall not be driven by any taunts into doing anything which we may think injudicious with regard to the lives of the Europeans in Egypt. With regard to the question generally so intimately connected with the whole subject, the noble Marquess admits-and I might be forgiven were I to express some surprise at his doing so that he does not require further explanation now. the THE DUKE OF BUCCLEUCH said, he was not going to oppose the second reading of the Bill; but he thought some more information with regard to it was wanted. His noble Friend ought to have given some general details as to the object of the Bill. There had been so many alterations of late in the Law of Entail in Scotland that it was very difficult to know what the law was. In the 7th and 10th clauses there were some important points, these provisions being of an extremely stringent character. There might be very good reasons for the next heir refusing his consent to the disentailing of the land; but if he did, as he understood the Bill, the heir in possession had only to apply to the Court. The Court was not called upon to make an investigation to satisfy itself that the application was right and good; but it should immediately proceed to direct a sale as if the consent had been obtained, whether the heir liked it or not. Cases might arise with regard to minors, in which such powers as these might lead to great hardships. He referred to these points to show that the noble Earl in charge of the Bill ought to direct his attention to them. The Bill had been brought on for second reading so rapidly that he had not had time to communicate with Scotland and obtain the views of the Legal Profession in regard to it, or to ascertain the general feeling of the country. Moreover, the half-yearly county meetings were all over, and there would be no opportunity, at any rate for some time, to obtain an expression of opinion from them. He thought the noble Earl should allow them ample time, though, of course, he would not ask for a very considerable delay, before taking the Bill in Committee. It would be necessary to consider several Amendments, which it would take some time to prepare. THE MARQUESS OF LOTHIAN said, it seemed to him the object of the Bill was practically to do away with entails in Scotland altogether. As he understood the provision, any heir of entail in possession would be able to disentail his estate without the consent or against the wishes of the next heir of entail. There would be no power to prevent the disentail by the fact that the next heir of entail was under 21 years of age, or of any legal disability. He was not at all opposed to the principle of the Bill; but he hoped the noble Earl (the Earl of Rosebery) would, when the Bill came into Committee, explain what would be the practical effect of its operation. He quite agreed, although there had been many Entail Bills for Scotland, that it was highly desirable that some such Bill as this should be passed, because at this moment it was almost impossible to understand exactly what the law really was, there were so many different cases. There were the cases of those old entails before the passing of the Rutherford Act; there were the new entails subsequent to the Act, and the entails which had been altered by the Act of 1875. In consequence of the different Acts, which only applied to some entails and not to all, there was a state of confusion, and he thought it was highly desirable to put a stop to that state of things. He hoped the noble Earl would agree to postpone the Committee for some little time, so that if the Bill passed it would be a satisfactory one, and that they should not require any further measures dealing with the same subject. second reading, I will only say that, having heard no word of objection privately or publicly against the Bill, I fixed the second reading for to-day; but if any noble Lord had wished me to postpone it, and given me the slightest intimation to that effect, I should have thought it my duty to accede to the request. I need hardly say that any day which is convenient to the noble and learned Earl (Earl Cairns) and the noble Duke opposite (the Duke of Buccleuch) will be fixed for Committee on the Bill. As regards what the noble and learned Earl said, I admit that, in my opinion, there is very great force in it. I do not myself think that the uses to which the entail money are to be applied under the Bill are sufficiently wide; but, in introducing a Bill of this nature to your Lordships' House, it is necessary for the Govern ment to consider not merely what is desirable in the abstract, but the attitude which might be maintained by noble Lords towards it; and, therefore, I think we introduced a Bill in this respect, as in others, of an extremely moderate character. As to what fell from the noble Duke, I have to thank him very warmly for not offering his oppositionwhich would necessarily be a most powerful opposition-to the Bill. It is quite true that the next heir under this Bill will not have the option or power of opposing a sale, but it is true that his interest will be preserved from the result of the sale; and I would remark that, if the opposition of the next heir were to be valid against such a sale, it would be practically of no use bringing in a Bill at all; because under the Act of 1875, passed under the late Government, the power given was to dispense practically with all consent except that of the next heir; and, therefore, if we did not dispense with the consent, and make one step in advance, it would have been useless bringing in a Bill at all. The noble THE EARL OF ROSEBERY: My Marquess (the Marquess of Lothian), Lords, as it does not appear that any whose support of the Bill I must also other noble Lords wish to address the acknowledge, seemed to be a little vague House, I will, with your permission, say as to the main object of the Bill. The a very few words in reply to, or in ac-object of the Bill may be stated in one knowledgment of, what has been said; word; it is, that no man in future, no because, as a matter of fact, my first landed proprietor, need remain under duty is to thank the House very sincerely entail unless he chooses; but all the infor the spirit in which it has approached terests which have been hitherto rethe consideration of this Bill. As respected are respected now. If the heirs gards what has been said about the haste of these estates get their due proportion, with which this Bill has come to the I do not think there is much tocomplain The Duke of Buccleuch |