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MR. COURTNEY: The great changes which have been in progress during the past year in the Customs Department have precluded for the present the consideration of the case submitted by the collectors. The matter cannot in any case be urgent, as the position of the collectors was considerably improved so recently as 1873. But the Treasury and the Board of Customs are in correspondence on the matter.

PROTECTION OF PERSON AND PROPERTY (IRELAND) ACT, 1881-MR. PARNELL.

MR. A. J. BALFOUR asked Mr. Attorney General for Ireland, Whether, on the day on which Mr. O'Shea had an interview with Mr. Parnell in Kilmain

ham, any other visitor was admitted to an interview with Mr. Parnell; if so, whether the name of every such visitor was entered in the prison books according to the ordinary rule; if not, if he would state why not?

THE ATTORNEY GENERAL FOR IRELAND (Mr. W. M. JOHNSON): I have no knowledge or information whatever of any visitor seeing Mr. Parnell in Kilmainham, except that which I have in common with every other Member of namely, what has been

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the House stated in the House.

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MR. CHILDERS: Yes, Sir; an Infantry Volunteer Corps is part of the territorial regiment. But, as to the numbering and uniform of the battalions, I am anxious not to make changes in advance of the general wish of the Volunteers themselves, and I do not propose to do more than we have done until those wishes are generally expressed. When Volunteer Officers are subject to Military Law they are undoubtedly liable to serve on courts martial. But, as a matter of practice, they would probably not be detailed so to serve unless known to possess the necessary knowledge of the law.

ARREARS OF RENT (IRELAND)

BILL.

of the Treasury, Whether he has obtained reliable Returns of the number of tenants and the amount of their arrears of rent which would come under the cognizance of the Arrears of Rent (Ireland) Bill; and, if so, will he place them before the House; and, if he has not such Returns, will he at once take steps for obtaining them?

MR. BIDDELL asked the First Lord

MR. GLADSTONE: We are using the best efforts we can to get as particular information as possible about the number and amount of arrears in Ireland; but I cannot say absolutely that we shall be able to succeed in obtaining it in a very formal manner. We have, of course, no authority over private perclosure. We have proceeded on the sons to require them to make any distainty there may be by a very large principle of covering whatever uncermargin. But we shall do the best we

can.

MR. GREGORY asked the First Lord of the Treasury, If he will provide for the remission of tithe rent-charge, quit rent, Income Tax, and any other charge ment in respect of any holding with which may be payable to the Governregard to which arrears of rent will be cancelled by the operation of the Arrears Bill now before Parliament, and for the period for which those arrears are cancelled?

MR. GLADSTONE: I know the attention which the hon. Member has given to this question; but he will not expect me to go in detail into it at the present time, because it will come up for discussion in Committee. But as to

the item of Income Tax, I may say that it is already settled by the present law.

WAYS AND MEANS-INLAND REVENUE -THE CARRIAGE DUTIES.

MR. COCHRAN - PATRICK asked Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer, Whether it is intended to impose the new increase of the Carriage Duty in those counties in Scotland in which the maintenance of highways by assessment will not come into operation till 1833 ?

THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER (Mr. GLADSTONE): There is no intention of asking the House to impose a carriage duty in certain counties, and to exempt certain other counties; nor do I believe it possible to work a law upon that principle. The question in what way the incidence of the duty -if it please the House to vote it may be adapted to the different cases of the different parts of the country that may or may not have taken over the maintenance of highways by assessment is, of course, a question for consideration when we come to the mea

Bure.

to the Prime Minister, in order that the Queen's pleasure may be taken in filling up the vacancy. I have not yet received any communication from the Viceroy on the subject.

MR. HEALY: Will the right hon. Gentleman assure the House that there is no truth in the statement relative to Mr. Baron Fitzgerald, for it was to that my Question was principally directed?

MR. GLADSTONE: There is no truth in that statement.

EGYPT (POLITICAL AFFAIRS). BARON HENRY DE WORMS asked the Prime Minister a Question of which he had given him private Notice. It was, Whether the Prime Minister had seen a telegraphic statement in one of the leading Liberal organs of the day from the correspondent of that newspaper in Cairo, to the effect that there was now no Khedive, no Government, and no Ministry in Cairo, and that everything which the English and French had declared they would not allow had been done there; whether that statement was correct; and, if so, what steps Her Majesty's Government would take

PREVENTION OF CRIME (IRELAND) to prevent the continuance of such a

BILL-MEMORIAL OF IRISH JUDGES. MR. HEALY asked the First Lord of the Treasury, What answer has been given to the memorial of the Irish Judges protesting against the abolition of trial by jury in Ireland; whether any resignations in the Irish judiciary have been sent in; and, if he can state by whom the two vacant judgeships will be

filled?

MR. GLADSTONE: I cannot find on

inquiry that in any Department there was any formal communication of the Memorial of the Irish Judges to the Government. There has been no answer

to that Memorial or any correspondence upon it that has come to the knowledge of the Government. It was not forwarded to us in any way. As to resignations in the Irish Judiciary, there is no resignation properly so called; but there has been a removal by the promotion of Mr. Justice Fitzgerald, which creates a vacancy, of course. As to the vacancy in a Judgeship recently caused by death, the regular course is that the Viceroy communicates his view on the subject, when he has made up his mind,

state of anarchy ?

MR. GLADSTONE: I do not know that there was any occasion for the hon. Member to have given me Notice of the Question, or that my answer could have statement to be a sort of summing up— been improved by Notice. I take that very effective, rather figurative, and, perhaps, a little poetical-of a situation which is undoubtedly grave and formidable, but which can only be treated in reference to a statement of particulars a little more exact than that very general statement. I hope that in a few days satisfactory information will be given on some of those particulars.

PRISONS (ENGLAND) ACT-PRISON WARDERS.

MR. R. N. FOWLER asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department, Whether his attention has been called to an opinion given by Mr. Justice Lopes at the Central Criminal Court, on May 24, when the learned Judge stated

"He could not think that forty convicts should be in charge of only one warder, armed with a short sword, while they (the convicts)

had in their possession such murderous weapons as those presented in court. It was said that the means of communication was a whistle; but it might occur that the warder was rendered insensible. It was worthy of attention whether this system could not be altered, so that a small NAVY - EXPLOSION ON BOARD H.M.S. number of convicts should be together under the charge of one warder, or that the number of warders should be increased;

of their City, I do not consider that any action is called for on the part of the Executive Government.

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LICENSING ACTS (IRELAND)-CORK
RACES.

SIR WILFRID LAWSON asked the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, Whether it be true, as reported in the Cork daily papers of the 29th May, that a duly convened meeting of the City Magistrates was held on the previous day, at which it was resolved that, following the precedent of last year, no occasional licences for the sale of intoxicating liquors should be granted for the Cork Races on the 7th June; whether one magistrate has defeated the objects of the proceedings of the meeting by signing the necessary certificates for such licences; the other two magistrates on the Bench at the time, one of whom was not present at the meeting, stating they could not be parties to ignoring the resolution arrived at; if it be true that, on the last occasion when these licences were issued, a serious riot, which endangered the peace of the City, originated in one of the drinking tents; and, whether he will communicate with the Commissioners of Inland Revenue, who are empowered to grant such licences, when they consider that doing so will "conduce to public convenience, comfort, and order," before they act on the certificates ?

MR. TREVELYAN: The facts are quite correctly stated in the Question of the hon. Baronet. The attention of the Government has not been drawn to the matter by the magistrates; and in the absence of any representations on the subject from those who are the responsible authorities for preserving the peace

Mr. R. N. Fowler

"SWIFTSURE."

SIR JOHN HAY asked the Secretary to the Admiralty, If he could inform the House whether a gun had burst on board Her Majesty's ship Swiftsure; whether the accident had been attended

by loss of life or limb; and if he would also state the nature of the gun which had burst, where manufactured, and whether other guns of the same character and manufacture, of larger or smaller calibre, were now embarked on board any other of Her Majesty's ships?

any

MR. CAMPBELL-BANNERMAN: I regret to state that it is unhappily true that an accident of the nature mentioned, and attended with fatal results, occurred on board Her Majesty's ship Swiftsure, at Madeira. The only information the Admiralty have received is contained in a telegram from the captain, dated the 1st of June, to this effect

"Arrived evening 31st. When saluting, breech-piece 25-pounder was broken off, killing Charles James, hurting three others, not seriously. Am inquiring into case." With regard to the nature of the gun, I think it would be better that my right hon. and gallant Friend should repeat his Question in a few days, as we have at present no reason to suppose that the accident was due to any fault in the gun; and we shall then have received a full Report on the subject.

LORD EUSTACE CECIL: Has the hon. Gentleman any objection to laying the official Report of the accident upon the Table of the House as soon as it is drawn up?

MR. CAMPBELL-BANNERMAN: When I see the Report I will answer that Question.

COLONEL NOLAN wished to know what possible objection there could be to saying what class of gun it was that had burst?

MR. CAMPBELL-BANNERMAN replied, that the only reason was thisthat he had read to the House all the information the Admiralty possessed; and if he were to proceed to state what nature of gun it was, it would throw suspicion upon that particular kind of gun. [Colonel NOLAN: Hear, hear!]

Until they had the Report on the accident before them, stating that there was some fault found in the gun, it would be unwise to do this.

COLONEL NOLAN said, he thought it quite right that suspicion should be cast on this particular class of gun. He gave notice that to-morrow he should ask the Secretary of State for War what class of gun had lately been supplied to the Navy? He should also repeat his Question to the Secretary to the Admiralty.

MR. CHILDERS said, he would answer the Question addressed to him at Only a few days ago he gave very detailed information as to the guns which had been supplied to the Navy.

once.

PREVENTION OF CRIME (IRELAND) BILL THE RECENT DIVISION.

MR. MAC IVER: I wish to ask the First Lord of the Treasury, Whether any special significance is to be attached to the absence of eight Members of Her Majesty's Government from the division of last Friday night, on the question whether the words "treason or treason-felony" were or were not to be included in the Prevention of Crime

Bill-namely, the President of the Board of Trade, the Vice President of the Council, the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, the Secretary to the Treasury, and the Secretary of State for War. I do not know that I need enumerate further. [Cries of "Go on!"] I do not know that the list is complete.

MR. T. P. O'CONNOR: Before the right hon. Gentleman answers the Question, I should like to ask him whether he attaches any special significance to the fact that the majority in favour of the insertion of these two words, "treason or treason-felony," consisted almost as largely of Conservatives as Liberals?

MR. GLADSTONE: It was my hope that both these questions would have conveyed interesting and detailed information to the House; but I am sorry to find that the statements of fact are rather vague. The hon. Member for Birkenhead has not been able to give us a complete list; and the hon. Gentleman who has last spoken is, I believe, very imperfectly informed indeed, for, if I am not much mistaken, considerably more than a moiety of the majority was

composed of Liberals. With respect to the Members of the Government who were not present at the division, I have not attached special significance to the instances, of which, indeed, owing to the failure of the hon. Member in the latter part of his list, I am not yet fully informed. There is no exemption to any Member of Her Majesty's Government from voting in the divisions of the House of Commons in which the Government is concerned; but I should be very sorry if it were a uniform rule to take to task Members who were not present at any division, as I am afraid very severe censure would frequently be bestowed upon me.

MR. MAC IVER: I am informed that the Secretary to the Admiralty was one of the absentees.

MR. CAMPBELL - BANNERMAN: I am afraid the hon. Gentleman has been misinformed, so far as I am concerned.

PARLIAMENT-ARRANGEMENT OF

PUBLIC BUSINESS.

MR. MACFARLANE inquired of the Prime Minister, Whether the second reading of the Customs and Inland Revenue Bill would be taken after Progress had been reported on the Prevention of Crime (Ireland) Bill ?

MR. GLADSTONE, in reply, said, that it would be taken after Committee on the Prevention of Crime (Ireland) Bill and on the Arrears of Rent (Ireland) Bill.

PARLIAMENT RULES OF DEBATEAMENDMENTS-PRECEDENCE IN COMMITTEE.

MR. HEALY asked Mr. Speaker, Whether any particular precedence attached to Members of the Government in placing Amendments on the Notice Paper; and whether if, after a private Member had placed on the Paper Notice of an Amendment in Committee, a Member of the Government put the same Amendment in different words, he was entitled to precedence?

MR. SPEAKER: Supposing two Amendments substantially the same are brought to the Table-one in the hands of the Member in charge of the Bill, and the other in the hands of another Member-precedence is given to the Amendment of the Member who has charge of the Bill.

ORDERS OF THE DAY.

19:0:0

PREVENTION OF CRIME (IRELAND)
BILL.-[BILL 157.]

(Secretary Sir William Harcourt, Mr. Glad-
stone, Mr. Attorney General, Mr. Solicitor
General, Mr. Attorney General for Ireland,
Mr. Solicitor General for Ireland.)
COMMITTEE. [Progress 2nd June.]
[FOURTH NIGHT.]

Bill considered in Committee.

(In the Committee.)

PART I.

SPECIAL COMMISSION.

"Nothing in this section shall empower a Special Commission Court to try a person for any offence, in the county or county of a city as the case may be, in which the offence was committed, unless a judge and jury in Ireland have jurisdiction to try that person for the said offence."

He thought it would be a much better place for inserting his Amendment than the place at present selected, and he hoped the Home Secretary would be able to adopt it. It would enable the Special Commission to try an offender at any place at which he could now be tried by an ordinary Commission or by the ordinary law. The Amendment of the Home Secretary would enable the Special Commission to try any person who was at present triable in the ordinary course of law by an Irish Judge

Clause 1 (Special Commission Court). and jury; and the addition he proposed

Amendment proposed,

In page 1, line 29, after the word "warrant," insert the words "and which shall be situated in the county or county of a city, as the case may be, in which the offence was committed." -(Mr. Marum.)

Question proposed, "That those words

be there inserted."

MR. MARUM said, that, before entering upon a discussion of the Amendment, he thought the discussion itself might be curtailed, or its necessity done away with altogether, if he were allowed to address a few observations to the Home Secretary. The question raised by the Amendment had reference to a change of venue; and the right hon. and learned Gentleman himself, in another part of the clause, proposed to move a Proviso

empower

"That nothing in this section shall a Special Commission Court to try a person for any offence, unless a judge and jury in Ireland have jurisdiction to try that person for the said offence."

This Amendment was certainly more in harmony with the views he (Mr. Marum) entertained, and was much better than the Bili as it now stood. The Amendment which he had proposed restricted the trial of an offender to the county or city in which the offence was committed, and if the Amendment of the Home Secretary were accepted in substitution, he should propose to add, after the first word "offence" in the Home Secretary's Amendment, further words to effect the object he had in view. The Proviso would then read

to add would simply restrict the venue to the locality in which the offence would now be tried under the ordinary law. He wished to point out to the Home Secretary, if the right hon. and learned Gentleman saw his way to the adoption of the principle he (Mr. Marum) advocated-namely, that there should be a locality in the venue-that this would be the best mode of carrying it out; and he should, in that case, feel disposed to withdraw the present Amendment, and wait until the one of which Notice had been given by the right hon. and learned Gentleman was brought forward. When it did come on, he would move the addition of these words. He thought it would be very hard upon poor persons that their witnesses should be required to travel some 200 or 300 miles to give evidence in their behalf.

SIR WILLIAM HARCOURT said, he quite agreed with the hon. Member that it would be more convenient to discuss this proposal when his own Amendment came before the Committee; but he was afraid that it would only mislead the hon. Member if he were to hold out any hope that he should be prepared to accept the proposal. As he had explained on Friday, the object of his Amendment was altogether a different one. It was suggested that it was not made sufficiently clear in the clause that the jurisdiction of the Special Commission was only to be such jurisdiction as could now be exercised by a Judge and jury in Ireland. That having always been the intention of the Government, they desired to make the matter

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