money and enabled us to place her in a nursing home until she was better.

We have been called upon recently to see an elderly gentleman who was found beside the road unconscious. Our office went up for a visit and found that the man needed many of our public services which he didn't know were available to him.

Every few days we see elderly people who have had quarrels with the children they are living with and have been told to leave and find a new place to live. Usually it is a woman and she has a very small fixed income, but sometimes she has none. In cases like this, the traumatic experience of having no place to go as well as the physical and mental abusiveness by the family is, in my opinion, a crime. Unless something is done to help the elderly protect their rights, they will become even more vulnerable to the crimes perpetrated on them from the most unexpected source, their family. I know that when I reach 65, I don't want to have to spend all of my retirement years fighting for my existence on a subsistence income and to be negated to the position of a third or fourth class citizen. One thing we must realize that we all grow older and all of us will become senior citizens

some day.

Mr. BRADEMAS. Thank you, very much, Mrs. Jones. I am very happy to see people like you playing such an active role in trying to cope with the problems you have outlined. Let me just ask you one question that has come up here. To what extent are the churches in Vermont playing a part in helping deal with the kind of problems we have been discussing this morning?

Mrs. JONES. I think the churches in Vermont have been playing a very great part in working with the elderly. They are getting more and more active working with children. But as of yet, wife abuse, spousal abuse is not yet a legal problem. People have not recognized it. Maybe it's because they don't know what to do about it. I think with the forum Mrs. Meub spoke about, we did go to several church groups and talk to them. They heard us, they listened; they heard us, but they were unsure how to respond to the problem.

Mr. BRADEMAS. Thank you. Mr. Jeffords?

Mr. JEFFORDS. I just want to go over one statistic. You mentioned that 95 percent of the women who came to you

Mrs. JONES. Ninety percent of the women who came to the welfare department to ask for assistance had been abused by their husbands. Mr. JEFFORDS. This is very shocking evidence which you have given us on abuse of the elderly. Does it seem to be statewide from your discussions with others or is this a phenomenon which happens to be

Mrs. JONES. I would assume it's statewide because the other member of the commission is a supervisor in a large hospital in Burlington. I work out of Newport, the SRS office which is the most rural, so I would assume it was statewide.

Mr. JEFFORDS. Thank you, very much.

Mr. BRADEMAS. We want to thank you all who have appeared before us on the subject of domestic violence. Your testimony has been extremely helpful to us.

Mr. JEFFORDS. Before we proceed into the next part of the proceedings, I would like very much to ask Sister Elizabeth to come down and

to give us, I believe, the greetings of the Governor. We would like very much to hear whatever else you would like to say at this time. Sister CANNON. Thank you, very much. Congressman Jeffords. Yesterday when I was talking with Governor Snelling, he asked me to make it very clear today that his greetings were extended to you and Congressman Brademas and to all of the people who are giving up this delightful muggy Saturday morning to talk about this very, very important issue; and so I did want to make very sure that Governor Snelling's welcome and best wishes for success were extended. He was not able to come today. Then, personally I would like to add my words of welcome.

Congressman Brademas over the years has in his distinguished career always been one whom I have watched, particularly for the work you have done in vocational rehabilitation. Congressman, I think that is one of the very important areas. I also understand that in Indiana you know a great hero of mine, Theodore Hesburgh, and that is a good enough recommendation for anyone to come to the State of Vermont. We are very, very honored to have you here today.

It's also a pleasure to have Jim Jeffords come back. It's a particular honor to have one of your stature in Congress come here and listen. to what these people who really know what is going on have to say. It makes me very proud to sit here and hear Betty Jones, who works in one of the local offices, speak so very knowledgeably and compassionately about the very difficult situation that we have. Of course, I am also proud of Con Hogan who will be speaking this afternoon, and all of the people in the agency.

When I left the office yesterday, Jim, my staff asked me to get one message to you. Apparently there is a vote coming up on title 20 with the possibility of removing the ceiling of title 20 funds, so they said to me, "Do you think you could get word to Jim?" I said, "Well, I would try."

Mr. JEFFORDS. You can tell them your remarks were so persuasive that I am going to vote in accordance with your wishes on that issue. Sister CANNON. That is wonderful. Now my next words, and I think they have particular validity, Jim, and that is that everybody in the Agency of Human Services tells me constantly how helpful your office and your staff, the ones here in Vermont and the ones in Washington, are. I hear that all the time, and that is not any kind of flattery, that is the truth. I just want you to know that.

Mr. JEFFORDS. They will all be in for raises later today. I would like to introduce some of them who are here. They are the people who do the work I get the credit for. John Auld is standing in the back. He is head of my Vermont operations. Bernice Murray is making sure lunch will be ready. Kathleen McGreevy, who is head of my Burlington operations; and finally, Frank Moriarty who is my man in Rutland and travels extensively in our outreach program. We have a couple of others who are not with us today. These are the ones that have done the work, and should take the credit.

Thank you, very much, for those kind words.

Mr. BRADEMAS. Thank you, Sister Elizabeth. I hope you will express my appreciation to Governor Snelling for his kind greetings; and as the Representative in Congress of the Fighting Irish of Notre Dame, I will communicate your good wishes to Father Hesburgh. I thank you for your kind words about me as well.

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Sister CANNON. I can think of no greater problems that we have facing us than domestic violence and the proper care of the elderly. If we can all work together as we are this morning, we will bring Vermont closer to that utopia we all know it could be.

Mr. BRADEMAS. Thank you, Sister. One of the subjects to which Mrs. Jones addressed herself in the testimony we have just heard brings us into the subject of our next hearing. So, we will now close the hearing on domestic violence.

[Whereupon the hearing was adjourned.]

felt anger and pressure, well up to the point where
release can be harmful to our children and family.
For some there is no one to turn to for help.
With overwhelming problems parents need positive
parenting skills to deal with anger and frustration.
There is a fear that from admitting problems children
may be taken away and there will be punishment.

PARENTS ANONYMOUS, Inc. of Vermont provides
immediate support and help from self-help support
groups (chapters) as well as individual counseling.
Parents Anonymous members meet once a week with a
professional sponsor as a "back-up" resourse and
facilitator. Members exchange phone numbes so they
may call for help should a crisis arise or just to
offer warmth and support. All members remain

anonymous.

The goal of Parents Anonymous is to rechannel destructive attitudes into constructive ones, to prevent the cycle of child abuse and to help establish a more fulfilling loving relationship within the family.

ELW/esj

Sincerely,

Elytech.

Elizabeth L. Wilkins
Executive Director