Relations with Great Britain. pense of the said Consuls or Vice-Consuls, until they shall have found an opportunity of sending them back, or removing them as aforesaid; but, if they are not so sent back or removed within three months from the day of their arrest, they shall be set at liberty, and shall not again be arrested for the same cause. ART. 7. This convention shall be in force for the term of five years from the date of the exchange of ratifications. It shall be ratified on both sides within three months from the date of its signature, or sooner, if possible, and the ratifications exchanged, without delay, in the United States, at the City of Washington. No. 24. Mr. Monroe to Mr. Madison. stock, which was intrusted to the care of Mr. Pinkney. He promised me to examine the papers immediately, and to write me as soon as he understood them. Nearly a fortnight afterwards elapsed, and I heard nothing from him. As Mr. Pinkney was extremely impatient, and I really wished to get into communication on the other topics, also, I wrote him a note on the — ultimo, requesting an interview on the general subject, with permission to present to him Mr. Pinkney at the same time, which was granted on the 30th. As the particulars which occurred in this interview appear to me to be of a nature very interesting, I shall endeavor to state them with the utmost accuracy. Mr. Pinkney opened his subject, the result of which seemed to promise a speedy conclusion of it, in a manner satisfactory to him. As he will doubtless communicate everything that occurs in that concern, it is useless for me to repeat anything that you may receive more fully from him. He withdrew as soon as his object was accomplished. I then asked his Lordship if he had read the project relative to seamen, &c., which I had given to Lord Hawkesbury some time since, and which I had mentioned to him in our former in LONDON, June 2, 1804. SIR: The late struggle in the Parliament has produced the appointment of Mr. Pitt to the place of Mr. Addington, of Lord Harrow by to that of Lord Hawkesbury, (the latter being removed to the Home Department, from which Mr. Yorke retired,) and Lord Melville to the head of the Admiralty, in the room of Lord St. Vincent. Not many other changes are made, the present minis-terview? He replied that he had not; that I try being formed principally of Mr. Pitt and some would recollect that he had requested me to delay few of his friends, with the other members of the examination of it for the present, as it did not the late one. It is understood that the King press; the Congress having adjourned, and the would not consent to the admission of Mr. Fox bill concerning it being postponed. I replied that into the ministry, in consequence of which the I did recollect it, but that I hoped by this time he Grenvilles and Mr. Wyndham refused to enter it. had examined it, and, being one which involved While the late ministry was on the decline, it no difficulty, that he would be prepared to act on seemed useless to press it on any concerns of ours. it. He said he was not, nor did he know that he I remained tranquil, in the hope of availing my- should be during the session of Parliament. I self with effect of the moment when it should told him that his mind being thus expressed, I either recover its strength, or, by retiring, give should certainly say no more on the subject for place to another, with which I might treat on the the present. I then asked him if he was disposed important concerns entrusted to me. As soon as to examine the ratification of the treaty respectLord Harrowby came into office, he notified it to ing boundaries, which I had also mentioned in our the foreign Ministers, and invited them to an in- former interview? He said he had not time, but terview at his office on the concerns of their re- would be glad to know in what manner it had spective countries. As each was introdueed sepa- been ratified? I replied, with the exception of rately, I took occasion to mention to him the the fifth article. He censured, in strong terms, subjects which were depending with his prede- the practice into which we had fallen of ratifying cessor, more especially the project of a treaty treaties, with exceptions to parts of them, a pracconcerning impressments, and other topics, and tice which he termed new, unauthorized, and not the interest of the State of Maryland in some to be sanctioned. I replied, that this was not the bank stock, which I hoped might soon be con- first example of the kind; that he must recollect cluded. I mentioned to him, also, that I had late- one had been given in a transaction between our ly received from you the ratification of the treaty respective nations in their Treaty of 1794; that respecting boundaries, by the President, with the in that case a proposition for a modification in advice of the Senate, with the exception of the that mode was well received, and agreed to; that fifth article, which I wished to submit to his con- to make such a proposition was proof of an existsideration. He replied, that he was glad I had ing friendship, and a desire to preserve it; that a turned his attention to those subjects, since he treaty was not obligatory until it was ratified, and, would make them the particular object of his re- in fact, was not one till then. He said the docsearch, but hoped that I would not press any of trine was not so clear as I had stated it to be; them, as he had so lately come into office, and had that there were other opinions on it, and seemed so many concerns before him of the first import- to imply, though he did not state it, that an omisance to his country, and of a nature very urgent. sion to ratify did an injury to the other party of a I assured him I had no disposition to hurry any very serious kind. He asked me, why the fifth point; should wait with pleasure his accommo- article had been excepted from the ratification? dation, though I hoped it would suit his conve- I replied that a doubt had arisen whether the ratnience to conclude soon the affair of the bankification of it might not lay the foundation for Relations with Great Britain. sight of its dignity by an abandonment of its just claims in its transactions with any other. disputes hereafter, from a cause which had no Everything that he said was uttered in an unconnexion with this transaction. This treaty was friendly tone, and much more was apparently signed on the 12th of May, 1803: the late treaty meant than was said. I was surprised at a deportwith France, which obtained the cession of Lou-ment which I had seen no example before since I isiana, bore date on the 30th of April preceding. came into the country, and which was certainly proAt the time this treaty was formed, neither our voked by no act of mine; yet I am persuaded it did Minister nor his had any knowledge of that with not produce an improper effect on my conduct. I France; that the cession of Louisiana was not in did not reciprocate the irritation by anything that the contemplation of either Government or its escaped me. I am equally well persuaded that I agent when their instructions were given or acted made no improper concession, and let it be clearly on, and, in consequence, the rights acquired under seen that I felt that I represented a respectable it ought not and would not be affected by this and independent nation, whose Government treaty. He observed, with some degree of sever-could not be intimidated, or compelled to lose ity in the manner, in substance, as well as I recollect, that, having discovered, since this treaty was formed, that you had ceded territory which I now consider these concerns as postponed inyou do not wish to part with, you are not dispos- definitely. I do not foresee at what time it will ed to ratify that article. I replied that he had be proper for me to revive the subject. Much is misconceived my idea; that we did not admit said of the probability of a coalition between Great that the treaty would have any such effect, since Britain and the Northern Powers, and the freit could not operate upon an interest which did quent Cabinet consultations, at which the Minisnot exist when it was made; that we were, how-ters of Russia and Sweden assist, give counteever, anxious to prevent any misunderstanding on nance to the report. If that should be the case, the subject by previous explanation and arrange- it is probable that the policy and tone of this ment; that, by postponing the subject for the Government toward neutral Powers may be less present, the door was left open for amicable ne-friendly or accommodating. The new Minister gotiation and adjustment, which we wished; that, at present, we were treating upon a subject too remote from our settlements to be well understood, or, in point of interest, pressing; that, by delay, there was no privation of right; and the amica-dinary harassment of neutral commerce; by the ble disposition which now subsisted between the two nations remaining, the affair could not otherwise than be adjusted hereafter to their mutual satisfaction. He repeated again the idea which he first expressed, implying strongly that we seemed desirous of getting rid of an article on finding that it did not suit us. I could not but feel the injustice of the insinuation, which was made much stronger by the manner which accompanied it; nevertheless, I only added that he ought not to expect to derive an advantage from a treaty, the conditions of which were not known to his or our Government when this treaty was made, in an interest in which we alone had paid the whole consideration. I offered to leave the ratification with him, but he declined taking it, observing that it was useless, as he could not act upon the subject at present. may seek to distinguish his career from that of his predecessor by measures which may be deemed more enterprising. His system in the last war, so far as it affected us, was marked by an extraor blockade of France, the islands, &c. Our unexampled prosperity and rapid rise, it is well known, excite their jealousy and alarm their apprehensions. It may be painful for them to look on and see the comforts and blessings which we enjoy, in contrast to the sufferings to which, by the calamities of war, they are doomed. Whether the conduct of Lord Harrowby was produced by any change of policy toward us, or by any other cause, transient or otherwise, it is utterly out of my power to ascertain at present. My most earnest advice, however, is to look to the possibility of such a change. The best security against it will be found in the firmness of our councils, and the ability to resent and punish injuries. It is said, on what authority I know not, that Mr. Merry will be recalled, and some person of the first distinction sent in his stead. If this is the The conduct of Lord Harrowby through the case, although the exterior may be otherwise, yet whole of this conference was calculated to wound it ought not to be considered as a measure adoptand to irritate. Not a friendly sentiment towarded with a view to harmony, or from motives of the United States or their Government escaped him. In proposing a postponement of the interests in which we were a party, he did not seem to desire my sanction, but to assume a tone which supposed his will had settled the point. By his manner he put it out of my power, in assenting to the delay, to mingle with it any expressions declaratory of the pleasure with which I acceded to an arrangement which accommodated his Government or himself. Such expressions can never be used with propriety, except where they are voluntary, and acknowledged to be founded in generous motives. But no sentiment of that kind seemed to animate him on this occasion. I respect to our Government, since, if such were the objects, the tone which I have above communicated would not have been assumed by Lord Harrowby, nor should I be among the last to hear of it. These remarks I have deemed it my duty to make, from the circumstances on which they are founded. Being sincerely anxious for peace, from a knowledge-such is the happy condition of our country-that much expense and injury must result from war, while it is impossible for us to derive any advantage from it, you may rest satisfied that I shall cherish our present amicable relations by all the fair and honorable means in my power; that I shall also be observant of events, APPENDIX. Relations with Great Britain. 2388 and not fail to communicate to you with the great-cial system until the period should arrive when I am, sir, with great respect and esteem, your obedient servant, JAMES MONROE. No. 27. each party, enjoying the blessings of peace, might tion it merited; that he wished those regulations find itself at liberty to pay the subject the attento be founded in the permanent interests, justly and liberally viewed, of both countries; that he sought for the present only to remove certain topics which produced irritation in the intercourse, LONDON, August 7, 1804. such as the impressment of seamen, and in our SIR: I received a note from Lord Harrowby on commerce with other Powers, parties to the presthe 3d instant, requesting me to call on him at his the honor to present his predecessor some months ent war, according to the project which I had had office the next day, which I did. His Lordship since, with which I presumed his Lordship was asked me in what light was our treaty viewed by acquainted. He seemed desirous to decline any our Government? I replied that it had been rat- conversation on this latter subject, though it was ified, with the exception of the fifth article, as I clearly to be inferred, from what he said, to be had informed him on a former occasion. He ob- his opinion that the policy which our Governserved that he meant the Treaty of 1794, which, ment seemed disposed to pursue, in respect to the by one of its stipulations was to expire two years general system, could not otherwise than be agreeafter the signature of preliminary articles for able to his. He then added, that his Government concluding the then existing war between Great might probably, for the present, adopt the Treaty Britain and France. He wished to know whether of 1794 as the rule of its own concerns, or in rewe considered the treaty as actually expired? I spect to duties on importations from our country, said that I did presume there could be but one and, as I understood him, all other subjects to opinion on that point, in respect to the commer- which it extended; in which case, he said, if the cial part of the treaty, which was, that it had ex- treaty had expired, the Ministry would take the pired; that the first ten articles were made per- responsibility on itself, as there would be no law manent; that other articles had been executed, to sanction the measure; that, in so doing, he prebut that these, being limited to a definite period, sumed that the measure would be well received which had passed, must be considered as expiring by our Government, and a similar practice in with it. He said it seemed to him doubtful whe- what concerned Great Britain reciprocated. I ther the stipulation of the treaty had been satis- observed that, on that particular topic, I had no fied by what had occurred since the peace; that a authority to say anything specially, the proposal fair construction of it might possibly require an being altogether new and unexpected; that I interval of two years' peace after the war, which should communicate it to you, and that I doubted had not taken place in point of form, much less not it would be considered by the President with so in fact, for the state of things which existed the attention it merited. Not wishing, however, between the countries through that period was far from being a peaceable one. to authorize an inference that that treaty should Lordship that the distinction had never occurred countries, I repeated some remarks which I had I informed his ever form a basis of a future one between the two to us, though certainly it would receive from our made to Lord Hawkesbury in the interview Government all the consideration which it merit- which we had just before he left the Department ed, especially if it was relied on on his part. Af- of Foreign Affairs, by observing, that, in forming ter some further conversation, he seemed to admit a new treaty, we must begin de novo; that Amerthat the construction he had suggested of the stip-ica was a young and thriving country; that, at ulation referred to was rather a forced one; that, the time that treaty was formed, she had had litby the more obvious import of the article, the tle experience of her relations with foreign Powcommercial part of the treaty must be considered ers; that ten years had since elapsed, a great poras having expired. What, then, said he, is the tion of the term within which she had held the subsisting relation between the two countries? rank of a separate and independent nation, and Are we in the state we were at the close of the exercised the powers belonging to it; that our inAmerican war? By what rule is our intercourse terests were better understood on both sides at to be governed respecting tonnage, imports, and this time than they were; that the treaty was the like? I said that the law in each country, as known to contain things that neither liked; that I presumed, regulated these points. He replied I spoke with confidence on that point on our part; that the subject was, nevertheless, under some that, in making a new treaty, we might ingraft embarrassment here. He asked how far it would from that into it what suited us, omit what we be agreeable to our Government to stipulate that disliked, and add what the experience of our rethe Treaty of 1794 should remain in force until spective interests might suggest to be proper. two years should expire after the conclusion of And being equally anxious to preclude the inferthe present war? I told his Lordship that I had ence of any sanction to the maritime pretensions no power to agree to such a proposal; that the of Great Britain under that treaty, in respect to President, animated by a sincere desire to cherish neutral commerce, I deemed it proper to advert and perpetuate the friendly relations subsisting again to the project which I had presented some between the two countries, had been disposed to time since for the regulation of those points, to postpone the regulation of their general commer-notice its contents, and express an earnest wish Relations with Great Britain. that his Lordship would find leisure, and be dis- | obtain. To approve them was the only duty left posed to act on it. He excused himself again from for me to perform, as the able and laborious atentering into this subject, from the weight and tention which Mr. Pinkney paid to the subject urgency of other business, the difficulty of the rendered it altogether unnecessary for me to take subject, and other general remarks of the kind. I any other part in it. After the expiration of Mr. told him that the most urgent part of the subject Pinkney's office as Commissioner under the was that which respected our seamen; that our Treaty of 1794 with Great Britain, he ceased to Government wished to adopt a remedy which have a right to draw his salary in that character: would be commensurate with the evils complain- as, however, his continuance here, under the aued of by both countries: his Government com- thority of the President, on the other duty, which plained that deserters from their ships in America was indispensable, exposed him to at least equal were not restored to them; ours, that our seamen expense, I thought it proper to request our bankwere impressed in their ports, (those of Great ers to advance him five hundred pounds on that Britain,) and on the high seas, in our vessels, and head, to be accounted for with you. This sum is sometimes in our bays and rivers; that such inju- rather more than his compensation as a Commisries ought to be put an end to; and that we were sioner would have been for an equal term; but willing to adopt a fair and efficacious remedy for as it was necessary to enable him to pursue the the purpose. He said he was afraid, however object and facilitate his return home, I flatter well disposed our Government might be to give myself the President will approve the measure. the aid of the civil authority to restore deserters The advance being made on my responsibility. to their vessels in the United States, that little under the circumstances of the case, can, of advantage could be derived from such a stipula- course, have no influence on the vote of compention. The bias and spirit of the people would be sation to be allowed him for the service, or in deagainst it, with us, as it was here, under favor of signating the party which ought to make it. which deserters would always find means to elude the most active search of the most vigilant peace officers. I replied that I did not think the difficulty would be found so great as he supposed; that our people were very obedient to the law in all cases; that, as soon as the apprehension and restoration of deserting seamen to their vessels was made a law, (as it would be, by becoming the stipulation of a treaty,) the public feeling on that point would change, especially when it was considered as the price of a stipulation which se-jury, by taking them up with some public moneys cured from impressment their fellow-citizens who might be at sea or in a foreign country; that sailors never retired far into the interior, or remained where they went long, but soon returned to the seaport towns to embark again in the sea service; that it was not likely they would be able to elude the search of the magistracy, supported, as it would be, by the Government itself. I found, on the whole, that his Lordship, did not wish to encourage the expectation that we should agree in any arrangement on this head, though he was equally cautious not to preclude it. I left him without asking another interview, and the affair, of course, open to further communication. Mr. Lear having obtained a commutation of the tribute which was to have been paid to the Government of Algiers in naval stores into money, and drawn for the amount on our Consul at Leghorn, who forwarded bills for the same on our Government to the house of Mr. Hengist Glennie here for sale, and it appearing that they could not be negotiated without considerable loss, I concurred with Mr. Erving in opinion that he had better save the public from so great an in which he had in his hands. He has done so, as he most probably has already informed you. The money which the Commissioners under the British Treaty directed, by form, to be returned to me, was paid by my order into the hands of our bankers, by the clerk who brought the order of the Commissioners to me. I propose, in a week or ten days, to ask another interview of Lord Harrowby on the topics depending between our two Governments. By what has passed, you will infer that I have at present but little hope of bringing them to a conclusion. The practice of this Government is, however, on the whole, very favorable to us; our commerce enjoys a protection, which is a proof of the increasing respectability of our Government and country. None of our vessels that I know of have been condemned, but few are brought in under any pretext, and, in one case, compensation has been made for the detention. I hope to be able, after the proposed interview with Lord Harrowby, to fix the time when I shall set out for Spain. I am, with great respect and esteem, your very obedient servant, JAMES MONROE. Mr. Pinkney has fortunately obtained an adjustment of the interest of Maryland in some stock in the Bank of England, by a transfer to him; as agent of the State, of the amount, by the Crown. The Government itself appeared well disposed to the object, but it and the Court of Chancery were so beset by a number of persons having claims on the State after the interest vested in the Crown, that it was very difficult to bring it to a happy conclusion. To quiet the claimants, and enable the Government to act in it with satisfaction to itself, required a spirit of accommodation, perseverance, and ability in the management of the trust, without which it could not have been effected. The terms on which the affair is concluded have appeared to me to be as advantageous to the State as it was possible torowby on the 1st instant, which I had asked, to No. 28. Mr. Monroe to Mr. Madison. LONDON, September 8, 1804. SIR: I obtained an interview with Lord Har APPENDIX. Relations with Great Britain. ascertain the sentiments and disposition of his Government on the subjects which I had long before submitted to it. The conference was free and full on every point, in which I urged everything which I could draw from the lights in my possession, to induce his Government to adopt the convention which I had proposed in the spirit of my instructions, for the suppression of impressments, &c., and to ratify that respecting our boundaries, with the exception of the fifth article, as the President had done. His Lordship heard me with attention and apparent candor; he stated difficulties and received explanations, and finally promised to submit the subject to the Cabinet, and give me as early an answer as he could. In examining that part of the project which respects impressments, he expressed some regret that the affair had been taken up with such earnestness in the Congress. I told him that business was conducted there differently from what it was here: that here the ministry in both Houses proposed and carried public measures; but that with us the members of the Administration were excluded from the Legislature; that the branches were completely separate and distinct from each other; that although they were a check each on the other, yet that neither was responsible for the acts of the other: that the passage of a bill by both Houses was no evidence of the sense of the Executive on the subject of it until it had its sanction; that, in the present case, the motions which had been made in Congress were only to be considered as a proof of the great sensibility of the nation to the object of them; that the practice of impressing our men, which had been carried to great excess, was a cause of continued and high irritation throughout the Union; that it was very much to be wished that that cause could be removed by satisfactory arrangement between the Governments, which was deemed practicable, and which our Government with great earnestness and sincerity sought, as was shown by the propositions which I had made by its order; that the President certainly preferred a security of our rights by such an arrangement, as the Congress likewise did, as was seen by the failure of the motions alluded to, though made by members of great respectability, and strongly supported by the public feeling. He said much as to the extent of the propositions being of a nature quite hostile; of the time at which they were made being anterior to any proposal to negotiate; though in this idea he seemed to correct himself, as he was aware that Mr. King had endeavored to arrange the affair before his departure, and that I had expressed a similar desire soon after my arrival here. He spoke much of the difficulty attending my arrangement, from the similitude of the people; of the great numbers of their seamen which it was known we had in our service. I replied that the arrangement was not proposed to be permanent, but for a short term, and experimental; that it looked to the evils complained of on his side as well as ours, and sought to remedy them; that it was believed the remedy it proposed would be effectual; but if the experiment 2392 should throw any light on the subject, so as to enable our Governments hereafter to arrange it better, much would be done. He declined giving any opinion on the articles in the project which respected this interest, though I inferred by his stating no objection to them that he did not deem them unreasonable. In speaking of those articles which defined in certain cases neutral rights, he observed that they only touched the subject in part; that if our Government adopted the propo sition which he had made lately, of considering the Treaty of 1794 in force until two years after the expiration of the present war, the whole subject would be provided for. I replied, that in touching the subject in the points to which the articles extended, and in those only, our Government sought to put out of the way for the present, and during the war, all temporary or transient causes of irritation which might tend to the injury or to disturb the harmony of the two nations; that in seeking a postponement of a general arrangement of our commerce till peace, it was supposed that his Government would be accommodated by it, which consideration had had much weight with the President, since, as he wished all future arrangements of that kind to be founded in the mutual and permanent interests of both countries, so he was satisfied that those interests could at no time be so well examined or understood as when both parties, being happy in the enjoyment of peace, might have leisure to pay them the attention they merited; that the articles proposed did not stipulate anything which his Government had not sanctioned by its treaties with other Powers, as well as by its present practice. He observed, however, that they omitted other objects which were included in those treaties, and which his Government deemed very important to its welfare; that these points had been paid for by the Powers to whom the concession had been made by stipulations which secured the interests which the project I had presented had omitted. In this remark he alluded ing protection to the goods," which he called more especially to the doctrine of the "ship's givmodern and theoretical, and to Russia as furnishing an example of the kind he stated. I told him that our Government was not disposed to give his trouble on that point, though it could have no motive to enter into any stipulation respecting it; that its whole conduct during the war had been friendly and conciliating; that he had not heard of any measures taken with the neutral Powers which ought to excite a jealousy of our views, or create a suspicion that the President was disposed to embarrass them in such cases; on the contrary, that I could assure him, if the objects to which the articles in the project extended were secured, that none others would be thought of. We then proceeded to examine the convention respecting the boundaries, in the light in which the ratification by the President presented it. On that subject also I omitted nothing which the documents in my possession enabled me to say; in aid of which I thought it advisable, a few days afterwards, to send to his Lordship a note ex |
