wolf was not at our door yet; the "Non Hydra secto corpore firmior wolf | quiry, unless on strong and very substantial grounds. Such grounds had not now been proved, and that such did not exist, he trusted he should be able to show. The general accusation was against the conduct of ministers in the present war: its extent was said not to be so great as that of other wars, though the expenses attending it were far more considerable. But every war had been more expensive than the war preceding it; and according to the wealth, extent, and prosperity of the nation, the increase of expenses in succeeding wars was inevitable. An impartial survey of the nature of the contest we were engaged in, would amply prove that the expenses incurred by its operations were such as need not dread the charge of prodigality. The expenses attending the prosecution of a war, should be estimated by the private expenses to which, at certain times, every family was exposed. If at present every article of provisions cost nearly double their former price to individuals, must they not be proportionably expensive to government? If the exertions of the enemy were great, and the means they employed mighty, must not a proportionate scale of expense be adopted by those who opposed them? The enemy with which we had to contend, had sacrificed the whole of its commerce, and spent five-sixths of its specie to carry on the war. If the war was just and necessary, and that it was he would ever avow, he did not see why the expense attending it should be deemed a sufficient ground for instituting the inquiry called for. The present state of the country was to be judged of by the state of our revenue and commerce. In every other war, the new taxes always failed to produce the full amount at which they were stated: and the old taxes particularly fell off from their accustomed produce. On an average of the three years before the war, and the first three years of the war, the difference between the permanent taxes was only 246,000l. and the new taxes were at least equal every year to what they had been stated. The commerce of the country was in a state still more satisfactory. The average of the exports during the three last years of peace, was 22,585,3321. The average of the last three years of the present war, was 24,453,3381. So that the exports of the war exceeded those of the peace, annually, 1,868,000l.—The next topic was the mode taken to borrow Mr. Jenkinson said, that it was peculiarly the province of that House to keep a jealous and watchful eye on the state of the finances, and on the mode in which they were conducted, and the services to which the supplies ought to be appro priated, no man would deny. The House possessed a legislative, and an inquisitorial power; and to the latter belonged a control over the management of the public purse. These two capacities implicated two duties opposite in their nature, and which should be exercised when adequate occasions called for their interference. In no administration, however wise and perfect it might be esteemed, should a blind and implicit confidence be reposed; but a certain degree of confidence was due to every administration, as long as their conduct betrayed nothing that justified suspicion. If suspicions should arise, and those suspicions appeared to stand on strong and substantial ground, then, indeed, it would be criminal in parliament not to grant an inquiry, such as was that night proposed; if, on the contrary, the grounds adduced for that investigation were equally trivial and unfounded with those urged in the present case, it was the duty of parliament to resist it. On the first glance at the present circumstances of the country, many objections must arise against instituting an in money to defray the necessary expenses, try would be amply repaid by the crippled of the war, and here it was natural to ex- state of the French navy.-It was true, pect, that in proportion to the magnitude there was a large unfunded debt; that, of the sums borrowed, the interest must however, was provided for in the ways increase, yet even in this particular the and means of the year. If the war was money had been borrowed during this confined to one point, then it would be war, at an advantage of 14 per cent. in practicable to present clear and satisfacfavour of the country, when compared tory estimates; but as we had never been with the loans made during the American engaged in a war which was carried on war. The hon. member had adverted to in so many different quarters, it was imformer times as a reason why the House possible to frame estimates more satisfacshould agree to his motion for a commit- tory. The hon. member had adverted tee of inquiry; but he had not given the to the erection of barracks; as if that was chancellor of the exchequer any credit a subject to which parliament was a for the plan he pursued, for appropriating stranger. It would, however, be recolthe annual million towards the sinking lected, that the account of the annual exfund. The present war he must ever pense for the last five years had been conconsider as one on which depended the stantly laid on the table. The system liberty of the subject, and the very exist was one which parliament had conceived ence of the constitution. Considering to be prudent and wise; and of course the present contest as such, posterity the House must have been prepared for could not, in justice, exclaim against the the estimates on which the hon. member burthens which they would have to de- had so much enlarged. The hon. gentlefray; for the war was entered into and man had asked, what had been gained by continued, not more for the purpose of the war, and why it was carried on? It preserving ourselves, than for handing was carried on for national objects; and, down to future generations, our constitu- as a naval war, we had gained great action unimpaired, and our liberties invio- quisitions. Did the hon. gentleman conlate. The next question was, how far sider the skill and valour displayed in the the exertions of ministers had been pro- war as nothing? Did he hold our acquiportioned to their expenses. Let gentle- sitions in the East Indies, the Cape of men look at the number of men this Good Hope, the Dutch settlements, the country had brought into the field, and post of St. Domingo, the island of Marthe number of ships put into commis- tinique (which marshall Bouille prosion, and the charge of improvidence nounced to be the key of the West India against government must vanish. During islands), and Corsica, as nothing? He the American war there were 314 ships defied any gentleman to show that there in commission; at present there were ever had been a more glorious and suc368. The number of men in the army cessful war. Mr. Jenkinson said, he had increased in the same proportion. heard constantly of the parliamentary We had a much larger force employed jealousy in the reigns of George 1st and than on any former occasion, and it par- 2nd. but he knew nothing of it. History took, from the nature of the contest, as taught him that a larger share of confi much of a continental as it did of a ma- dence had been given to ministers in ritime war. Reason dictated to us, that those reigns than in any other, when a when at war with France, to engage the million and a half had been used for secontinental powers in our favour was cret service money for ten years, and no politic. He therefore maintained, that proceedings passed upon it; and afterthere was no prodigality in subsidies. wards, when parliament required an acThe Austrian loan had been called im- count of the expenditure of the secret politic; and some gentlemen had gone service money, the minister advised the so far as to say that a subsidy would have king to refuse it. It was impossible for been better; but those opinions had al- him fairly to examine the whole of the ready been found groundless, the interest hon. gentleman's arguments; but he had been punctually paid; and the gua would maintain, that for the last twelve rantee of this country for the sum was years this country had enjoyed more ponot impolitic. What was the consequence litical liberty than at any former period, of that loan? It had diverted the atten- and that the people had had a larger tion of the enemy from its marine; and share in the constitution. Upon these even if it was never liquidated, this coun- grounds, he would negative the motion. [VOL. XXXII.] [3 N] Mr. Curwen said, he had listened at- it could be procured. He did not think tentively to the hon. gentleman's speech, it was by gentlemen opposite pestering and could have wished to have heard ministers with repeated motions every him justify, upon fair grounds, that sys-week, that peace could be obtained. He tem, so ably reprobated by his hon. friend. was therefore for the war, and would not When the conduct of France was selected enter into the consideration whether the as the fit object of continual abuse, it be-loan was a favourable one or not. He came a fair question for that House to disapproved of the motion. If the situaconsider, whether we had made those ex- tion of the country was critical, there ertions which we had the means of doing, was the more danger from public invesand whether the accounts on the table tigations. The debates got abroad, and were fairly and properly made out? if they were known in France, might reWhat could a member of parliament say tard negotiation. It was not our business to his constituents, after having imposed to confess our poverty if we were poor, additional burthens upon them, without nor to spoil our own trade by crying being able to tell how the money voted stinking fish. was applied? Such was their situation at present; and, if no inquiry was granted, they might come back and find the burthens doubled. During the American war, it had been thought necessary to institute committees of inquiry, because the expenses of the war were deemed to be improvident and misapplied. If that was the case when the amount was only nine millions, what could justify resisting inquiry now, when the amount was more than double that sum? As to the boasted acquisitions, he considered most of them, if not all, as misfortunes. He rather wished that some system could be pursued that would keep us rid of colonization, which tended to weaken the country. He denied that continental wars had ever been useful to this country. He was pointedly severe on the erection of barracks. Should ministers persist in the line of conduct they had pursued, they would compel the people to speak for themselves, not from any love of French principles, but from the burthens, calamities, and distresses of a ruinous and expensive war. If all inquiry was to be resisted, it was of no consequence for the representatives of the people to call themselves such, or to remain there; perhaps they might do better to retire. Mr. M. Montagu said, that war was always attended with unforeseen expenses; but it was not optional with ministers whether those expenses were large or small. He thought much praise was due to them for the manner in which they had provided for the exigencies of the By a continuance of their exertions, the French must at last be brought to their senses. war. Sir G. P. Turner lamented the expense of the war, and was very desirous for peace, but confessed he knew not how Mr. Steele said, that the hon. mover was justified in asserting, that the expenses of the public services had of late years exceeded the estimates; but the amount was not equal to his statement. The navy estimates in the three years of the war had amounted to about 15,000,000l. the debt during the same period had increased somewhat more than 13,000,000. but this debt could not fairly be stated to have been incurred without the sanction of parliament. It had been the practice, from the Revolution to the present time, to vote the sum of 41. per man per month, according to the number of seamen to be employed; this allowance, had not, for some years, been found equal to the expenditure, even in time of peace. The great causes of the excess in time of war were the high price of provisions, the price of naval stores, and the expense of transports. After the first year of the war, therefore, his right hon. friend, on opening the budget, had found it his duty to state the debt he had incurred in consequence of this excess, and the means which he had provided for discharging it; and the House, by its proceedings upon the statements of his right hon. friend, had given an indemnification and sanction for what he had done. His right hon. friend had provided for the discharge of the whole of this 13,000,000l. of navy debt, except one million and a half. On the opening of the budget in the present session, his right hon. friend had informed the House that the navy debt had increased 1,500,000l. which remained to be provided for, and the House acted upon it. After that information, he could not imagine his right hon. friend had proceeded without the authority of parliament. — The hon. gentleman had stated the estimates of the army at 17,600,000l. which was provided for by the funded debt; and the extraordinary expenses, or unfunded debt, incurred during the last three years for the army, he calculated at 9,000,000l., to which he added the votes of credit, making in all 14,000,000l. and upwards of unfunded debt for the army, unauthorized by parliament. This, however, was not the true state of the case; for the vote of credit had received the sanction of parliament. From the sum of 9,000,000l. ought also to be deducted one million and an half, arising from the repayment of a large sum which had been advanced to general Clerfait, and from savings on the grants for the years 1794 and 1795, which having been applied towards payment of of the extraordinaries, reduced the real amount of those extraordinaries to 7,500,000l.-Comparing the 7,500,000l. therefore, with the unfunded debt left to be provided for at the end of every former war, he stated it at his belief that we had expended less in extraordinary expenses than in any former war. It had been next contended, that there was a direct violation of the law of appropriation. If his right hon. friend had violated the appropriation act, he had done no more than his predecessors had done before him. By that act, certain sums were to be estimated and provided for under such and such heads: but there had always been certain expenses incurred, which ministers had not been able to lay under any head of estimates, which were afterwards brought before parliament, under the head of extraordinary expenses, and as they had always been justified and approved by parliament, he did not see that any blame could attach to his right hon. friend. By the loan of the present year provision was made for the repayment of 2,600,000l. to the army service of the year 1795. This sum had been already voted by parliament, and repaid to the army, and with the addition of the farther extraordinaries that remained to be voted, he pledged himself there would be money more than sufficient to pay the whole of the army, and not to leave sixpence in arrear.-It had been urged, that the vote of credit had been misapplied, and that it was voted to answer any unforeseen demands during the recess. This he denied. The estimates and the vote of credit had made but one purse, and both were made use of indiscriminately for the public service. Upon } 45 207 Motion for Anatomizing the Bodies of Felons executed for Burglary or Highway Robbery.] March 11. Mr. Joddrell rose, pursuant to notice, to move for leave to bring in a bill to increase the punishment inflicted by law in cases of burglary and highway robbery. Those crimes, he said, had of late obviously increased to an alarming degree, and consequently, it became a duty of the legislature to take some means to check this growing evil. In the plan which he should submit to the House for that purpose, he had taken the act of the 25th Geo. 2nd, cap. 37, for his model. The House would recollect, that the object of that act was more effectually to prevent the horrid crime of murder. The principal provisions in that act were, that the person convicted should be executed the next day but one after his conviction, except that should happen to be Sunday, and, in that case, on the Monday following, and, that after execution, the body of the criminal should be given for dissection. The first part of this act, viz. that which ordains a speedy execution, he did not think necessary to adopt in the bill which he should propose to the House; because, though he wished to increase the punishment in cases of burglary and highway robbery, yet he wished to preserve a discriminating line between them and murder; but the next clause, viz. that which enacts that the body shall be given to the surgeons for dissection, appeared to him to be one which might, with great propriety, be applied in the two crimes to which he had alluded. By another clause in the 25th Geo. 2nd, the person convicted of murder was to be kept from the time of conviction till execution, upon bread and water. This was a severity which he did not see the necessity of adopting; for nothing could be further from his principles than to introduce more severity than the urgent necessity of the case called for. The regula tion he suggested was not unknown to the law, as a statute of Henry 8th enacted, that the bodies of felons executed should be sent to Surgeons-hall for dissection. He had spoken of this bill to lord Kenyon, and the late lord chief baron Skinner, who both seemed to approve of it: nor had he heard of any objection to it, but that it would confound the punishment of murder with lesser offences, and thereby render that pre-eminent crime more common. This he did not believe, as this circumstance was only a secondary consequence, which those who were so abandoned as to disregard life would not consider. He hoped, that by this increase of punishment, the crimes of burglary and highway robbery would be diminished; he confessed, however, he had another object in view, namely, to check a practice which had gained ground of late, and which loudly called for some remedy; he meant that of stealing bodies out of church-yards. The House were not, he believed, aware of the extent to which that infamous practice prevailed. He had made particular inquiries about it, and he found that it exceeded almost all belief. If the bodies of persons convicted of burglary and highway robberies were given for dissection, it would at all events diminish the necessity of robbing churchyards, and most probably check the practice. He concluded by moving, "That leave be given to bring in a bill for Anatomizing the bodies of felons executed for burglary, or highway robbery." Mr. Buxton seconded the motion, simply on the ground that, by increasing the materials for dissection, it was likely to promote improvements in surgery. Mr. Francis said, that when this subject was first mentioned to him, he was led to believe that anatomical improvement was the principal, instead of the secondary object of the hon. gentleman. However if the measure was likely to be attended by moral improvement also, in diminishing the number of burglaries and highway robberies, very important addditional advantage would certainly be obtained. There might be serious doubts entertained as to the general principle of the bill, lest, by extending to other offences those aggravated penalties, which the law now affixed exclusively to the crime of murder, that impression of horror which nature, co operating with legislative provisions, had implanted in the human breast against a crime so atrocious and detestable, might, in some degree be diminished. In this view it might, perhaps, be deemed inexpedient to add to the severity of our laws; but though he would not recommend additional punishment to the latitude, at present proposed, he thought it might fairly be applied to those offences which came nearest to the guilt of murder. Of this description were those inhuman robberies, where the offenders, not content with taking the property of their fellow subjects, just stopping short of murder, exercised wanton cruelties by maiming and wounding those whom they plundered. Another species of crimes were those nocturnal depredations, in which men were deprived of their usual courage and means of defence, and were, during the process of the burglaries, exposed to terrors worse almost than death itself. In cases like these, where the offenders had not the same excuses, if, indeed excuses could be admitted, and certainly had none of the risk of common highwaymen, he should not object to their being subject to those penalties, even after death, which the law at present reserved for murderers. He should at the same time wish to exempt from these severities, burglaries which were not attended with such aggravating circumstances. Mr. Serjeant Adair said, he felt great satisfaction in happening to be down at that early hour to hear the unexpected proposal made by the learned gentleman, and to give it his direct opposition. It was much to be lamented that there should be suffered to exist in the criminal laws of this kingdom, any thing which could operate as a deduction from that general admiration which our judicial code was otherwise entitled to receive. Unhappily, however, inequalities did exist in the classes and definitions of crimes, by which the severest penalties were attached to species of offence infinitely less obnoxious than others which were punished in a much slighter manner. This had been observed by all versant with the criminal justice of the country, and had been considered as a manifest defect in our criminal code. But were gentlemen aware of the extent that was given to the definition of this kind of burglary? Were they aware that a ragged boy who passed the most populous street in the metropolis after sunset, which was at four o'clock on the 21st of December, and who, taking out a pane of glass with his knife, and with a wire drawing out two penny-worth of ribbon, or a pair of garters, was guilty of the crime of burglary, and must receive |