Judge MARTIN. I cannot honestly answer that; it has never been proposed.

Senator METZENBAUM. How about the River Valley Club-is that what it is called?

Judge MARTIN. Yes.

The River Club? I really can't answer that. It has never been proposed, nor suggested.

Senator METZENBAUM. And at the country club?

Judge MARTIN. I would say the same thing; it has never been proposed.

Senator METZENBAUM. Would you support the admission of an otherwise qualified black to each of the clubs?

Judge MARTIN. Yes, I would.

- Senator METZENBAUM. As a member of the bench, how many employees do you have?

Judge MARTIN. I supervise approximately 100 employees.

Senator METZENBAUM. Of that number, how many are black, how many are women?

Judge MARTIN. Five are black in the professional and nonprofessional categories. In the category of staff attorneys and law clerks, who work for individual judges whom I supervise, there are 11 women, 12 men, 2 of whom are black.

Senator METZENBAUM. How many of the professionals are black? Judge MARTIN. Two.

Senator METZENBAUM. Out of a hundred?

Judge MARTIN. Out of the hundred.

Senator METZENBAUM. If you were to learn that the clubs that did have a policy of excluding blacks, even though an unwritten policy, would you continue to remain as a member of the club? Judge MARTIN. No, I would resign.

Senator METZENBAUM. I have not as yet seen Senator Ford, and I think Senator Huddleston and I will have a good chance to seek him out because we are going to be required to go back to the floor for a vote.

I want to thank you, Judge Martin, for your response. Senator DeConcini, would you like to make a statement now, or would you prefer to return?

Senator DECONCINI. I would be glad to do it now and introduce Mrs. Schroeder, if I could, Judge Schroeder.

Senator METZENBAUM. Thank you again, Judge Martin. I think we will wait for Senator Ford. It may be advisable if you would at least remain until he arrives.

Judge MARTIN. Thank you.

NOMINATION OF MARY M. SCHROEDER

Senator METZENBAUM. This hearing is on the nomination of Mary M. Schroeder, of Arizona, for the position of U.S. circuit judge for the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals.

Senators DeConcini and Goldwater have indicated their approval of the nomination. The American Bar Association's Standing Com>mittee on the Federal Judiciary has found the nominee to be qualified for this position.

The Federation of Women Lawyers' Judicial Screening Panel has found Judge Schroeder to have demonstrated an exceptional commitment to equal justice. This is the highest rating awarded by the panel.

One objection to the nomination of Judge Schroeder has been received by the committee, which has been placed in the committee's files.

I am happy to have Senator DeConcini with us. Senator Goldwater was unable to be with us but he has a statement to submit in the record.

[The prepared statement of Senator Goldwater follows:]

STATEMENT OF SENATOR BARRY GOLDWATER

Mr. Chairman, I deeply regret my inability to appear personally today to add my endorsement to the nomination of Mrs. Mary Murphy Schroeder to be a judge of the Ninth Federal Circuit Court of Appeals. I have asked my colleague, Senator DeConcini, to make sure that my statement is made a part of the official committee record.

As you know, Mr. Chairman, Mrs. Schroeder is currently serving as a judge of the Arizona State Court of Appeals in Phoenix. She came to our State in 1970 as a law clerk for the very distinguished Arizona Supreme Court Justice Jesse A. Udall, having graduated from the University of Chicago Law School in 1965 and having served for 4 years as a trial attorney for the Civil Division of the U.S. Department of Justice in Washington.

Mr. Chairman, although we are of different political persuasions, I have profound respect for the abilities which Mrs. Schroeder has demonstrated during her legal career. She has contributed importantly to the legal processes in my home State. After serving briefly with Justice Udall, she entered private practice with the highly prestigious law firm of Lewis & Roca in Phoenix, becoming a partner with that firm in 1973. She left private practice in 1975 to become appeals court judge. During her service on the bench, she has served as a visiting instructor at the Arizona State University Law School in civil procedure, appellate advocacy and discovery. She is a member of the American Bar Association, the Federal Bar Association, and the bar associations of Arizona, Illinois, and the District of Columbia. She has done extensive writing on legal matters, particularly in reviewing books on legal practice and procedure.

Mr. Chairman, I can't say that I approve wholeheartedly of all of President Carter's nominations to the Federal bench; however, in the case of Mrs. Schroeder, I feel he has made an excellent selection and one that will auger well for the dispensing of equal justice under the law in the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals.

Senator METZENBAUM [continuing]. Senator DeConcini, we would be very happy to hear from you briefly, although if it is lengthy, we will be glad to hear that, except we will do that after the vote.

STATEMENT OF SENATOR DeCONCINI

Senator DECONCINI. Mr. Chairman, thank you very much. I do have Senator Goldwater's statement here, and I would ask unanimous consent that it be printed in the record prior to mine.

Senator METZENBAUM. Without objection, it is so ordered.

Senator DECONCINI. It is a great pleasure that I join with my senior colleague from Arizona in presenting and introducing to this committee Judge Mary Schroeder.

Mary distinguished herself as a trial attorney with the Civil Division of the U.S. Department of Justice from 1965 through 1969. In 1970, she was a law clerk for the Honorable Jesse A. Udall at the Arizona Supreme Court. In 1971, Judge Schroeder again distinguished herself in the private practice of law with the firm of Lewis & Roca, where she became a partner in only 2 years.

In 1975, Judge Schroeder was nominated by the merit selection panel and appointed by Gov. Raul Castro to the Arizona Court of Appeals, where she again has distinguished herself.

She has also been a visiting instructor at the Arizona State University Law School, in addition to publishing many outstanding - legal works.

In 1977, when an opening occurred on the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals, the merit selection panel, then in existence, recommended Judge Mary Schroeder as one of the five nominees to the President for appointment to the court of appeals.

In 1979, the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals' merit selection panel again recommended Mary Schroeder to the President to be considered for appointment.

Our Federal Government's Affirmative action program of finding more qualified women and minority members to be appointed as Federal judges is a laudable one, so long as we keep in mind that it is not enough to just populate the Federal bench with impressive numbers. The nominees must also be qualified for an affirmative action program to be effective.

Therefore, it makes me doubly pleased to present to you Mary Schroeder. She not only fills our commitment to an effective affirmative action program, but she is very well qualified and will do an excellent job.

Against this background of her outstanding and extraordinary career, it is my pleasure to recommend that Mary Schroeder's nomination be confirmed to the newly created position on the Ninth Circuit Courts of Appeals for which she has been nominated -by the President.

I thank the committee for its consideration.

Senator METZENBAUM. We appreciate the support of both Senator Goldwater and yourself in connection with this nomination, and it is certainly important to the committee.

At this point the committee will stand in recess. Senator Ford, just as soon as I return we will be happy to hear from you. I know that you were tied up on the floor.

Senator FORD. We have got to vote, Mr. Chairman. What is the procedure? Are you through with my nominee now? If I could enter my statement in the record and he could be dismissed, or what is it?

Senator METZENBAUM. That would be fine, although we would be glad to hear from you orally when I return.

Senator FORD. I would be delighted to submit my statement for the record, because it just makes him A-plus.

The committee stands in recess for about 10 minutes. [Whereupon, at 2:27 p.m., a short recess was had.]

Senator METZENBAUM. We will come back to order. I apologize for the delay, but these are forces beyond my control.

Senator Hatch, I believe, has a comment to make in connection with the pending nomination of Judge Martin.

Senator HATCH. Judge, I just wish to commend you on your good thoughtful comments on the minority Senator's questionnaire on the subject of standing.

As you know, there are many observers of the Federal judiciary who are concerned with the artificial devices employed by some

judges to circumvent a case from the controversy requirements under article III, thus expanding the scope of political issues and pardons. I am pleased to observe that we have in you a judge who is at least sensitive to these concerns.

I did have some questions for you but I am going to forego those. I just wanted to compliment you and tell you that I certainly support your nomination.

Judge MARTIN. Thank you very much.

Senator METZENBAUM. Judge Martin, regarding your views on the subject of standing. Since I asked the staff on the majority side if they are familiar with it-and they are not-would you be good enough to indicate at this point what your views are that so favorably impressed my colleague on the left-he's not very often on my left-

Judge MARTIN. Senator, I would say that my view is somewhat tempered by my philosophy, and that is that I try to take one step in one case at a time in reviewing the standing question. I have tried to research the issue as I have found it in the decision of the U.S. Supreme Court and have responded as best I could under the opinions that have been written, and spent a great deal of time writing it, and could explain, at least my feeling, toward the answer to the question.

Senator METZENBAUM. You wouldn't happen to have a copy of

that?

[Pause in proceedings.]

Senator METZENBAUM. Judge Martin, I have not read your statement, I have only perused it, and I must say I don't know whether I agree or disagree with some of the points you made, but I don't really think that's too important, I think the fact is that you have stated them in a judicial manner, in a manner that I think a member of the bar or a member of the court should state his or her position-I won't put any questions on that. Thank you very much for appearing.

Judge MARTIN. Thank you very much, Senator.

Senator METZENBAUM. Senator Hatfield, I think that we might take your witness at this point so that you might leave.

Senator Hatfield, we are very happy to welcome you and your nominee.

NOMINATION OF OTTO R. SKOPIL

This hearing is on the nomination of Otto R. Skopil, of Oregon, for the position of U.S. circuit judge for the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals.

By blue slips, Senators Hatfield and Packwood have approved the nomination.

The American Bar Association's Standing Committee on the Federal Judiciary has found the nominee to be exceptionally well qualified for this position. Judge Skopil is the third nominee reviewed by this committee to have unanimously received this highest ABA rating.

No objections to this nomination have been received by the committee.

Senator Hatfield?

STATEMENT OF SENATOR HATFIELD

Senator HATFIELD. Thank you, Senator Metzenbaum.

Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, usually it is a once-in-a-lifetime privilege to present to this committee a person so amply qualified to serve on the Federal bench, therefore, it is indeed an extraordinary privilege today because this is the second time it has been my privilege to present this gentleman to this committee for confirmation hearings.

In 1972, I first had that opportunity to introduce to this committee Judge Otto Skopil, who was then being examined for an appointment to the Federal district court. This committee found him well qualified, and recommended confirmation to the full Senate. And I am assuming that the record that this gentleman has established in the period of time that he has served on the Federal district court puts him in good stead for confirmation for the Federal circuit court, Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals, to which he has been nominated by President Carter.

Mr. Chairman, I am not going to develop today for you the many qualifications this gentleman has in terms of his legal expertise and his standing with the profession. That is well attested to by the letters and other communications which you have received.

He has, since 1976, been serving as chief judge for the Federal District Court of Oregon. I think elevation to this position of leadership has not only attested to the man's capability of getting along with his fellow members of the bench, but also servers notice of his extraordinary ability for judicial administration.

My understanding is the Federal circuit court, ninth court of appeals, can well employ this particular talent of Judge Skopil. I only want to say that when I talked to the lawyers, who are the greatest critics of any judge, I'm sure, sitting on any bench, you will find nothing but complete unanimity on the issue that Judge Skopil represents not only equity and fairness in his dealings with his cases, but also the ability to look at people as more than simple cases. He has this tremendous compassion, this great sense of the humanitarian in that he sees each issue that is brought before him in terms of people.

He goes out of his way way to acquaint himself and to know the circumstances and the problems surrounding the issues that involve these individual human beings.

So I am very honored to present him to you today.

Senator Packwood, my colleague, would like to have a statement inserted in the record. He has a conflict of meetings today. Senator METZENBAUM. Without objection, it will be included. Senator HATFIELD. I am just most delighted to have this opportunity and I want to thank you, Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, for your courtesy in extending me this moment to present to you Judge Otto Skopil.

Senator METZENBAUM. May I ask you one personal question? Isn't it fact that Judge Skopil, when in private practice, was also using good judgment and discriminating taste when he had you as one of his clients?

Senator HATFIELD. That's correct, Mr. Chairman.

Senator METZENBAUM. That shows him to be an able jurist.