So the question was lost, and the words were struck out. WEDNESDAY, September 17, 1783. On motion of Mr. Duane, seconded by Mr. Gerry, Whereas it is the duty of Congress at all times, but more especially when their constituents are exposed to heavy taxes, and the finances greatly embarrassed, to embrace every opportunity to introduce economy in the public expenditures. And whereas since a return of the blessings of peace, not only the business of many of the officers on the domestic civil list is decreased, but the charge of their subsistence is greatly moderated. And whereas by a change of system in conducting the affairs of the United States, at foreign courts, great savings may be also made to the public. Resolved, therefore, That a committee be appointed to consider what reductions may be made in the civil list, and to report specially on each department. Ordered, That the committee consist of five. Ordered, That the first part of the report which was under consideration yesterday, so far as respects the civil list, be referred to the said committee. Congress then resumed the consideration of the report of the committee, to whom was referred the report on a letter of the 11th July, from the legislature of Massachusetts, which is in the following words: Whereas the legislatures, as well as the citizens of several states, are opposed to the allowance of half pay to officers of the army, and also to the commutation made by an act of Congress of 22d March last; and it is the request of the delegates of such states, that the legislatures thereof may have an opportunity of effecting a compromise with the officers of their respective lines, and of enabling them to retain the affection and esteem of their fellow-citizens. Resolved, That the secretary at war be directed to transmit to the legislatures of the states of Massachusetts, Rhode-Island and Providence Plantations, and of such other states as may apply for the same, a list of the officers belonging to such states respectively, to whom half pay or the commutation has been promised by Congress, and of the sums to those officers severally due, specifying particularly the arrearages of their pay, clothing and rations, to the 1st of January last, and the amount of the commutation; in order that the said legislatures, if they shall deem it expedient, may reward the services of the said officers, in a way that shall be mutually agreeable to them. That the public securities which have been or may be issued to the said officers, for their arrearages or commutation, and which in consequence of a compromise may by them be assigned to their respective states, shall be received by the superintendent of finance, from such states, in payment of requisitions of Congress: provided that such officers as may not accept the proposals of their respective states, for rewarding their services aforesaid, shall be nevertheless entitled to the commutatiou, and every other emolument granted them by acts of Congress. A motion was made by Mr. Ellery, seconded by Mr. Condict, to strike out the words, "provided that such officers, &c." to the end: And on the question, shall those words stand? the yeas and nays being required by Mr. Ellery, N-Hampshire, Mr. Foster, ay> |Pennsylvania, Mr. Fitzsimmons, * ay Montgomery, ay S M'Henry, ay ay Massachusetts, Mr. Gerry, ay Maryland, ay Higginson, ay ays ay Rhode Island, Mr. Ellery, no Madison, Connecticut, Mr. S. Huntington, ay B. Huntington, ay ayay ay New-York, Mr. Duane, ay L'Hommedieu, ay 20 > =Y S.-Carolina, Mr. Read, ay ay So it was resolved in the affirmative. A motion was then made by Mr. Gerry, seconded by Mr. Holten, after the words "in payment of requisitions of Congress," to add "not appropriated to the payment of the interest of the public debt:" And on the question to agree to this amendment, the yeas and nays being required by Mr Gerry, Congress resumed the consideration of the report which was under debate yesterday, and a motion was made by Mr. Bland, seconded by Mr. Hawkins, to strike out the words, "the legislatures as well as the citizens of several states," and to insert in lieu thereof, "it appears from the letter of the 11th July, 1783, from the legislature of the state of Massachusetts, that the legislature of that state:" And on the question to agree to that amendment, the yeas and nays being required by Mr. Gerry, N-Hampshire, Mr. Foster, |Pennsylvania, Mr. Fitzsimmons, Montgomery, no * ay> Massachusetts, Mr. Gerry, no ay } div. Maryland, Mr. M'Henry, ay > * Mr. Jones, ay Rhode Island, Mr. Ellery, Howell, no Bland, ay ay Connecticut, Mr. S. Huntington, no? B. Huntington, no } Lee, no no N.-Carolina, Mr. Hawkins, ay no Williamson, ay ay Mr. Read, no no ayay no Clark, So the question was lost. A division of the question was called for; and on the question to agree to the report, (including the preamble) as far as the word "provided," the yeas and nays being required by Mr. Gerry, A question being taken on the latter part, passed in the negative. Congress then resumed the consideration of the report of the committee, consisting of Mr. Duane, Mr. A. Lee, and Mr. S. Huntington, to whom was referred a letter of the 11th July last, from the legislature of Massachusetts, which is in the words following: That the subjects of complaint in the said letter are, the grant of half-pay for life to the officers of the army; the commutation granted to the said officers of five years' whole pay, in lieu of the said half-pay; and the salaries allowed to the civil officers of Congress. The half-pay, your committee observe, was granted at a critical period of the war, when our finances were embarrassed, our credit impaired, our army distressed, the officers discontented, and resignations so general, as to threaten the dissolution of a corps on whose military experience the public safety, in the judgment of the commander in chief, greatly depended. The first grant was limited to seven years, but not being deemed satisfactory to the army, the evil of resignations continued to prevail to so alarming a degree, as to require a more effectual remedy; and the grant of half-pay to the officers was extended for life. Your committee are persuaded that no doubt can be entertained, but that Congress were of opinion, that this provision was alone competent, if it was not the only one at that time in their power, to establish a military force capable of opposing the dangers with which the United States were then surrounded. That although it is to be regretted that any measure has been adopted by Congress, which has given uneasiness to the legislature or the citizens of the Massachusetts; yet experience has shewn how essentially that provision in question has contributed to the stability of the army, to its perfection in discipline, to the vigor and decision of its operations, and to those brilliant successes which have hastened the blessings of a safe and honorable peace. Your committee beg leave further to observe, that from an earnest desire to give satisfaction to such of the states as expressed a dislike to the half-pay establishment, a sum in gross was proposed by Congress, and accepted by the officers as an equivalent, for their half pay. That your committee are informed, that such equivalent was ascertained on established principles which are acknowledged to be just, and adopted in similar cases: but that if the objections against the commutation were ever so valid, yet as it is not now under the arbitration of Congress, but an act constitutionally and finally adopted, and the national faith pledged to carry it into effect, they could not be taken into consideration. With regard to the salaries of civil officers it may be observed, that the necessaries of life have been very high during the war: hence it has happened that even the salaries complained of, have not been found sufficient to induce persons properly qualified, to accept of many important offices, and the public business is left undone. Your committee are nevertheless of opinion, that since the cessation of hostilities, the expense of living is moderated, and that a considerable reduction may be made in the civil list." A motion was made by Mr. M'Henry, seconded by Mr. Mercer, to commit the report: And on the question for committing, the yeas and nays being required by Mr. Holten, The committee, consisting of Mr. Madison, Mr. Mercer and Mr. Duane, to whom was referred the report of the committee, on the letter of the 11th July, from the legislature of Massachusetts, brought in a report, which was taken into consideration, and the following paragraph being under debate: "And resignations so general as to threaten the dissolution of a corps, on whose military experience the public safety, in the judgment of the commander in chief, greatly depended." A motion was made by Mr. Howell, seconded by Mr. Ellery, to strike out the words, "in the judgment of the commander in chief:" And on the question, shall those words stand? the yeas and nays being required by Mr. McHenry, N-Hampshire, Mr. Foster, ay |Pennsylvania, Mr. Fitzsimmons, Massachusetts, Mr. Gerry, ay Holten, Rhode Island, Mr. Ellery, Montgomery, ayay Maryland, Mr. Carroll, ay McHenry, ay ay no Virginia, Mr. Jones, no ay Madison, ay On the consideration of the paragraph in which is the following sentence: "But if the objections against the commutation were ever so great, yet as it is not now under the arbitration of Congress, but an act constitutionally and finally adopted." A motion was made by Mr. Howell, seconded by Mr. Condict, to strike out the words, "constitutionally and;" And on the question, shall those words stand? the yeas and nays being required by Mr. Bland, N-Hampshire, Mr. Foster, Condict, no div. S.-Carolina, So the question was lost, and the words were struck out. SATURDAY, September 20, 1783. Congress took into consideration the report of a committee, consisting of Mr. Duane, Mr. Peters, Mr. Carroll, Mr. Hawkins and Mr. A. Lee, to whom were referred instructions to the delegates of Pennsylvania, and the same being read as follows: "That the legislature of Pennsylvania be informed, in answer to the request of the delegates of that state, in consequence of instructions from the said legislature of the 13th inst. that Congress have no objection to a conference being held on behalf of the state of Pennsylvania, with the Indians, on their borders, respecting a purchase to be made by and at the expense of the said state, of lands within the limits thereof; provided no engagements relative to peace or war with the said Indians, be entered into by the said state, the power of holding treaties on this subject, being vested by the confederation, solely in the United States in Congress assembled. And also provided, that due notice of such meeting be given to the executive of Virginia and New-York, who shall have it in their option to send commissioners to the said conference." A motion was made by Mr. Gerry, seconded by Mr. Ellery, that the farther consideration of the report be postponed until Thursday next: And on the question for postponing, the yeas and nays being required by Mr. Gerry, L'Hommedieu, ay} div. So the question was lost. The report having been then amended, so as to read, "That Congress have no objection to a conference being held on behalf of the state of Pennsylvania, with the Indians, on their borders, for the sole purpose of making a purchase by and at the expense of the said state, of lands within the limits thereof; provided that due notice of such meeting be given to the executives of Virginia and New-York, who shall have it in their option to send commissioners to the said conference." A motion was made by Mr. Higginson, seconded by Mr. Holten, farther to amend the report, by adding after the words "thereof," the following words: "After terms of accommodation shall have been agreed on between the United States and those Indians:" And on the question to agree to this amendment, the yeas and nays being required by Mr. Gerry, N-Hampshire, Mr. Foster, ay > * New-Jersey, Massachusetts, Mr. Gerry, ay Mr. Boudinot, ay no Say Holten, ay ay Condict, ay Higginson, Mr. Fitzsimmons, no Rhode Island, Mr. Ellery, no ay Montgomery, no Howell, ay ay Virginia, Mr. Jones, no Connecticut, Mr. S. Huntington, ay ay New-York, Mr. Duane, al ey N.-Carolina, Mr. Hawkins, ay Williamson, ay ay S.-Carolina, Mr. Read, no > A division of the question on the report was then called for; and on the question to agree to the report as amended, so far as the proviso, the yeas and nays being required by Mr. Fitzsimmons, no > New-Jersey, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Mr. Ellery, no Montgomery, no Howell, no Connecticut, Maryland, Mr. Carroll, no > Mr. Jones, ay Madison, ay ay Mercer, ay N.-Carolina, Mr. Hawkins, ay Williamson, ay ay S.-Carolina, Mr. Read, ay > Mr. S. Huntington, ayay B. Huntington, ay L'Hommedieu, ay ay So the question was lost. A motion was then made by Mr. Duane, seconded by Mr. Ellery, in the words following: Whereas the delegates of the state of Pennsylvania, have laid before Congress, a resolution of the legislature of Pennsylvania, in the words following: State of Pennsylvania, in General Assembly, Friday, September 12, 1785, A. M. The committee appointed yesterday, to whom was re-committed the report of the committee, on the subject of holding a conference with the supreme executive council, respecting the lands appropriated for the use of the Pennsylvania line, made report, which was read; and on motion and by special order, the same was read the second time, and adopted as follows, viz. The committee to whom the report of a committee, on the subject of a conference to be |