Senator PRYOR. Finally, following the interview with the nominees and other persons who expressed interest in the nominations, the staff then submitted a report to the committee on each nomination containing the above information and other matters relevant to their confirmation.

We have three distinguished Senators who have joined us this afternoon to make statements regarding these particular nominations. The first to arrive, is Senator Bentsen of Texas. I think if the other two Senators who have just come, Senator Jackson and Senator Moynihan, will permit, I will call upon Senator Lloyd Bentsen of the State of Texas.

TESTIMONY OF HON. LLOYD BENTSEN, U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF TEXAS

Senator BENTSEN. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I know we have two very prestigious and distinguished Senators waiting, and I will make my remarks short.

I am delighted to be here to help introduce my friend Scotty Campbell. He has been nominated by the President to direct the Office of Personnel Management. I thought we got him confirmed earlier, but apparently it didn't stick.

Mr. Chairman, Scotty Campbell's credentials as a Texan may be somewhat suspect, but his qualifications for this position I think are overwhelming. It is a privilege for me to be here.

His achievement in the civil service field and his integrity and dedication are well-known to the members of this committee. Dr. Campbell has compiled a record of accomplishment that I think serves as a model of effective service. As the architect of the administration's most major accomplishment, civil service reform, he helped achieve a difficult objective in a manner that I think is a credit to his ability as an administrator and enhances his reputation for fairness and effectiveness.

Scotty Campbell graduated Phi Beta Kappa from Whitman College and began a distinguished academic career at Harvard University, Hofstra University, and the Maxwell School of Syracuse University, where he served as dean from 1969 to 1976. In 1977 he was chosen as dean of the Lyndon B. Johnson School of Public Affairs in Austin, Texas, and left that post to assume his duties as Chairman of the Civil Service Commission. Throughout his tenure at the Maxwell School, Mr. Campbell found the time and energy to be active in New York State politics and served as a member of the State council of economic advisers from 1970 to 1974. He has also served as a consultant to the Federal Government in the areas of education and intergovernmental relations.

Mr. Chairman, Scotty Campbell has earned a reputation as the man who came to Washington to abolish his job. That's fine as far as it goes, but I don't think we can afford to lose a public servant with the proven ability of Scotty Campbell. I can think of no one better qualified to be Director of the Office of Personnel Management, and I sincerely hope the committee will concur in this nomination. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Senator PRYOR. Thank you, Senator Bentsen.
Senator Henry Jackson from the State of Washington.

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR JACKSON

Senator JACKSON. Mr. Chairman, I would like to associate myself with the fine remarks of Senator Bentsen, but would like to add just a few facts for the record which I feel are important. Scotty Campbell grew up in the State of Washington, and after graduating from Whitman College with honors, he joined the Ivy League, gaining degrees from Harvard and the London School of Economics. He has established an outstanding record in public administration and personnel management. I think his record of performance since he began working here in 1977 speaks for itself. I am therefore, very proud to join my colleagues, Mr. Chairman, in strongly recommending Scotty Campbell to myself as a member of the committee and to the other members for confirmation.

I would like to extend my remarks in the record.

Senator PRYOR. Without objection.

[The prepared statement of Senator Jackson follows:]

PREPARED STATEMENT OF SENATOR HENRY M. JACKSON IN SUPPORT OF THE CONFIRMATION OF DR. ALAN K. CAMPBELL

Mr. Chairman, I am pleased to appear before the Senate Governmental Affairs Committee to speak on behalf of Dr. Alan K. "Scotty" Campbell, and to urge the Committee to confirm Dr. Campbell as Director of the Office of Personnel Management.

Dr. Campbell bears a distinguished record of service and achievement in his professional endeavors, and brings impressive credentials as both an academic and executive to this Committee for consideration as Director of OPM. Most recently, he undertook the difficult arduous task of gaining Congressional support for civil service reform, and did a magnificent job of seeing it through to conclusion. In this regard, he has shown a clear sense of purpose and responsibility, and has proven his managerial skills. In so doing, I think it is important to note that he has received high marks not only from critics of the old Civil Service Commission, but also from those who have worked for and with him in establishing the Office of Personnel Management. I believe that Dr. Campbell will make a most effective Director of the Office of Personnel Management. In addition, Mr. Chairman, I would like to point out that Dr. Campbell has "roots" in my own State of Washington, having settled with his family as a boy in the small town of Greenacres, Washington, and thereafter graduating from Whitman College in Walla Walla. Although he later became an “ivy leaguer" by receiving a degree from Harvard and the London School of Economics, we in the State of Washington have always considered Dr. Campbell one of our own. I am proud to recommend him to the Committee for favorable consideration as the Director of the Office of Personnel Management.

Senator PRYOR. Senator Jackson, thank you for your statement. Senator Moynihan from the State of New York.

TESTIMONY OF HON. DANIEL PATRICK MOYNIHAN, U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF NEW YORK

Senator MOYNIHAN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have a simple and direct point. The Pope is a professor, why shouldn't the head of the Office of Personnel Management be a professor. There the similarity ends.

Senator PRYOR. Thank you, Senator Moynihan, for your statement. Dr. Campbell, I have a few questions for you and Mr. Sugarman. First, a question for Dr. Campbell.

Two years ago you were asked why you chose to leave an outstanding career in the academic field and accept the nomination to serve on the Civil Service Commission, and you were asked what was the greatest challenge facing you at that time. I wonder if you might answer that question again for us today.

TESTIMONY OF ALAN K. CAMPBELL AND JULE M. SUGARMAN, TO BE DIRECTORS OF THE OFFICE OF PERSONNEL MANAGEMENT

Dr. CAMPBELL. I would be delighted to, Mr. Chairman. Certainly in originally taking the position of Chairman of the Civil Service Commission, along with Vice Chairman Jule Sugarman, we were firmly convinced there needed to be some major change in the Federal personnel management system, and we set about to develop the changes that we thought were needed. With strong support from the President, and with Congress' help we were able to adopt those proposals.

However, as I said throughout the effort to accomplish that legislation, enactment of it was only 10 percent of the job, implementation of it is the other 90 percent. We are now in that implementation phase, with the Senior Executive Service now established and the overwhelming majority of those eligible to join have opted to do so. We now are beginning to put into place the merit pay system and performance appraisal system. I think we are off to a good start.

But success is by no means certain. Our commitment, and I think I can speak for Mr. Sugarman as well, is to insure that the changes which Congress has provided us, and the tools which Congress has provided us, will be effectively used to improve the performance of the Federal career civil service system.

Senator PRYOR. Thank you.

Mr. Sugarman, I wonder if you would discuss for the committee and for the record your reasons for desiring to accept this new challenge with the Office of Personnel Management?

Mr. SUGARMAN. Senator, my entire life has been in the public service. I began as a management intern in the Civil Service Commission in 1951, and after 5 years left for other Federal and local agencies. So it is sort of coming home to me.

As Scotty has said, we now see our program as being one of making these things work that we supported before the Congress. That is a formidable task; one which I feel will occupy a number of years. The act, by its very terms, gives us about 3 years to implement many of the proposals. But to make them work very well, is probably a 5to 10-year proposition.

One aspect is a technical evaluation program so that we can come back to the Congress, to this committee and its counterpart in the House, and tell whether in fact these programs did accomplish what we hoped they would.

Senator PRYOR. Gentlemen, both of you have provided the committee with certain information regarding your finances. Is that informa

tion current? Is is complete? And is it accurate to the best of your knowledge?

Mr. SUGARMAN. Yes.

Dr. CAMPBELL. Yes.

Senator PRYOR. Dr. Campbell, the chairman of the full committee has received a letter from Congressman Brooks, and I understand that a copy of this letter also went to you. Congressman Brooks has asked that we clarify your understanding of your term of office. Is it your understanding, Dr. Campbell, that although your term is designated to be a 4-year term, that you do serve at the pleasure of the President? Dr. CAMPBELL. Yes, that is my understanding. And if I may just give a word of background, the original proposal made by the administration in this area was for a normal presidential appointment, with the advice and consent of the Senate. The Senate altered that to a 4-year term. But as I now understand it, this is not a block on presidential removal in any sense. Indeed, the Director of the Office of Personnel Management does serve at the pleasure of the President. It is also my understanding that the 4-year term does require reconfirmation by the Senate at the end of that time period. So to that extent, it does differ somewhat from other appointments to chief administrative offices.

Senator PRYOR. Dr. Campbell, in order of priority, what do you see as the major unresolved problems of the civil service, and how do you expect to address these questions?

Dr. CAMPBELL. From a legislative point of view, the major need is to improve the Federal pay system by making it live up to the legislative mandate of genuine comparability. As you know, Senator, the administration has submitted legislation to Congress which we hope Congress will find time to consider over the course of the next several months. Once that is accomplished, I believe that the major legislative needs of the Federal civil service system will have been met.

There certainly are administrative needs. There is a need to improve the affirmative action record of the Federal Government. There is a need for us to gain the confidence of the Federal employees in the performance evaluation systems as they are put in place. There is, in my judgment, a very substantial need to emphasize quality in our recruitment efforts, rather than the current completely open system which results in literally hundreds of thousands of applicants who never receive serious consideration. That raises false expectations and does not serve the interest of those who are concerned about Federal employment.

We believe we can do all these things within current legislation, and indeed have programs underway in all of those areas.

Senator PRYOR. Thank you.

Mr. Sugarman, I am very much concerned today about the image the public has relative to Federal employees. Do you see civil service reform today as actually leading to an improved public attitude toward Federal workers and more confidence in Government? Do you have that hope or expectation?

Mr. SUGARMAN. I do have that hope, Senator. I think the public perceived very well some of the major features of civil service reform, particularly the improvement made in the processes of disciplining Federal employees, the creation of opportunities to take action where

the employee's own behavior or own poor performance actually merits action against him.

They have also noted the movement of managers and senior executives away from automatic pay increases to a system of pay increases based on performance; both the performance of the organization and the individual. I think that if we fulfill those expectations, that that will help public appreciation.

But I think the problem is broader than that, and I think that Dr. Campbell and I both have a responsibility to tell the public some of the good things about Federal employees, and some of the fine work done by Federal employees ranging from our Nobel Prize winners, to people who win awards, to people who respond to emergencies. There is a fine record of performance by the bulk of Federal employees, and I think the public needs to appreciate that. We will do what we can to increase that understanding.

Senator PRYOR. Mr. Sugarman, in the 1977 hearings held on your nomination to be a commissioner at the Civil Service Commission, you expressed concern at that time about the amount of time that is required to examine job applicants and fill vacancies. More recently, the General Accounting Office has released a report entitled "Federal Employment Examinations: Do They Achieve Equal Opportunity and Merit Principle Goals?" Additionally, the Government's efforts to recruit and retain employees through special programs have been the subject of considerable congressional concern and public comment in recent times. Would you give me and members of this committee your comments on this subject, particularly with regard to how much opportunity there actually is for young people who wish today to enter the Federal service?

Mr. SUGARMAN. Senator, it is an extremely competitive labor market at this point in time. This is, I guess, best illustrated by our experience with the PACE examination, which is the examination we use for people leaving college or those with equivalent experience. Last year we had something on the order of 225,000 applicants for that exam and we had 8,600 people hired. So there is an enormous number of competent people applying for Federal employment. There are a few shortages in specialized fields like scientists and engineers, but by and large it is a buyer's market as far as Federal employment goes.

One of the problems we continue to experience, and one which the General Accounting Office commented on in the report you cited, is the inadequate record as far as minorities are concerned in hiring through PACE and other Federal examinations. That has been of great concern to both of us. We have had extensive conversation with our own staff, with people from the National Science Foundation who are engaged in the study of testing procedures generally, with the Justice Department, and with the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission. We are making a number of changes that we hope will bring improvement. We have just recently approved for use by the Social Security Administration new examining procedures which will make a significant improvement in timeliness, efficiency, and affirmative employment opportunity as well.

I think the record of the Federal Government vis-a-vis private employers is pretty good. I think we have done very well. I think the record in terms of lower grade employees is exceptional. Our real prob