He observed that the same person happened to be, also, chairman of the committee of the whole body of British merchants, and that such was the respect paid to his person and office, that we might consider what came from him as coming from the committees themselves. He called on us at an appointed hour. It was a Mr. Duncan Campbell, formerly much concerned in the American trade. We entered on the subject of the non-execution of the late treaty of peace alleged on both sides. We observed that the refusal to deliver the western posts, and the withdrawing American property, contrary to express stipulation, having preceded what we considered as breaches on our part, were to be considered as the causes of our proceedings. The obstructions thrown by our Legislatures in the way of the recovery of their debts was insisted on by him. We observed to him that the great amount of the debt from America to Great Britain, and the little circulating coin in the former country, rendered an immediate payment impossible. That time was necessary; that we had been authorized to enter into explanatory arrangements on this subject; that we had made overtures for the purpose, which had not been attended to; and that the States had therefore been obliged to modify the article for themselves. He acknowledged the impossibility of immediate payment, the propriety of an explanatory convention, and that they were disposed to allow a reasonable time. We mentioned the term of five years, including the present, but that judgments might be allowed immediately, only dividing the execution into equal and annual parts, so that the last should be levied by the close of the year 1790. This seemed to be quite agreeable to him, and to be as short a term as would be insisted on by them. Proceeding to the sum to be demanded, we agreed that the principal, with the interest incurring before and after the war, should be paid, but as to that incurring during the war, we differed from him. He urged its justice with respect to themselves, who had laid out of the use of their money during that period. This was his only topic. We opposed to it all those which circumstances, both public and private, gave rise to. He appeared to feel their weight, but said the renunciation of this interest was a bitter pill, and such a one as the merchants here could not swallow. He wished that no declaration should be made as to this article, but we observed that if we entered into explanatory declarations of the points unfavorable to us, we should expect, as a consideration for this, corresponding declarations on the parts in our favor. In fact, we

supposed his view to be to leave this part of the interest to stand on the general expressions of the treaty, that they might avail themselves in individual cases of the favorable dispositions of debtors or of juries.

We proceeded to the necessity of arrangements of our future commerce, were it only as a means of enabling our country to pay its debts. That they had been contracted while certain modes of remittance had existed here, and had been an inducement to us to contract these debts. He said he was not authorized to speak on the subject of the future commerce.

He appeared really and feelingly anxious that arrangements should be stipulated as to the payment of the old debts; said he would proceed at that moment to Lord Carmarthen's and discuss the subject with him, and that we might expect to hear from him. He took leave, and we never since have heard from him or any other person on the subject.

Congress will judge how far these conversations should influence their future proceedings or those of the States.

I have the honor to be, &c.,

TH: JEFFERSON.

FROM THOMAS JEFFERSON TO JOHN JAY.

London, April 23, 1786.

Sir,

In my letter of March 12th I had the honor of explaining to you the motives which had brought me to this place. A joint letter from Mr. Adams and myself, sent by the last packet, informed you of the result of our conferences with the Tripoline Minister.

The conferences with the Minister of Portugal have been drawn to a greater length than I expected; however, everything is now agreed, and the treaty will be ready for signature the day after tomorrow. I shall set out for Paris the same day. With this country nothing is done; and that nothing is intended to be done on their part admits not the smallest doubt. The nation is against any change of measures. The Ministers are against it, some from principle, others from subserviency, and the King more than all men is against it. If we take a retrospect to the beginning of the present reign, we observe, that amidst all the changes of Ministry no change of measures with respect to America ever took place, excepting only at

the moment of the peace, and the Minister of that moment was immediately removed.

Judging of the future by the past, I do not expect a change of disposition during the present reign, which bids fair to be a long one, as the King is healthy and temperate. That he is persevering we know. If he ever changes his plan, it will be in consequence of events which neither himself nor his Ministers at present place among those which are probable. Even the opposition dare not open their lips in favor of a connexion with us, so unpopular would be the topic.

It is not that they think our commerce unimportant to them. I find that the merchants have set sufficient value on it; but that they are sure of keeping it on their own terms. No better proof can be shewn of the security in which the Ministers think themselves on this head than that they have not thought it worth while to give us a conference on the subject, though on my arrival we exhibited to them our commission, observed to them that it would expire on the 12th of the next month, and that I had come over on purpose to see if any arrangements could be made before that time. Of two months which then remained six weeks have elapsed without one scrap of a pen or one word from a Minister, except a vague proposition at an accidental meeting. We availed ourselves even of that to make another essay to extort some sort of declaration from the Court, but their silence is invincible. But of all this, as well as of the proceedings in the negotiation with Portugal, information will be given you by a joint letter from Mr. Adams and myself.

The moment is certainly arrived, when the plan of this Court being out of all doubt, Congress and the States may decide what their own measures should be.

The Marquis of Lansdowne spoke of you in very friendly terms, and desired me to present his respects to you in the first letter I should write.

He is thoroughly sensible of the folly of the present measures of this country, as are a few other characters about him. Dr. Price is among these, and is particularly disturbed at the present prospects. He acknowledges, however, that all change is desperate, which weighs the more, as he is intimate with Mr. Pitt.

This small band of friends, favorable as it is, does not pretend to say one word in public on our subject.

I have the honor to be, &c.,

TH: JEFFERSON.

FROM JOHN JAY TO THOMAS JEFFERSON.

Dear Sir,

New York, July 14, 1786.

Since my last to you, of the 16th ultimo, I have been honored with your letter of 23d, and a joint one from you and Mr. Adams, of 25th April.

Considering the importance of our commerce with Portugal, it gives me pleasure to learn that a treaty with that kingdom was nearly concluded. Until our affairs shall be more perfectly arranged, we shall treat under disadvantages, and therefore I am not surprised that our negotiations with Britain and Barbary are unpromising. To be respectable abroad it is necessary to be so at home, and that will not be the case until our public faith acquires more confidence and our Government more strength.

When, or how, these great objects will be attained can scarcely be conjectured. An uneasiness prevails through the country, and may produce, eventually, the desired reformation, and it may also produce untoward events. Time alone can decide this and many other doubts. For nations like individuals are more frequently guided by circumstances than circumstances by them.

I am not charged to communicate to you any instructions, though I have reason to think that some will be ready by the time the next packet will sail. Nor have I any very interesting intelligence to transmit. The British Government at New Brunswick have lately given uneasiness to Massachusetts by extending their jurisdiction farther than the treaty will warrant. And from the present state of our Indian affairs, there is reason to apprehend trouble with them. They appear dissatisfied with their late cessions to us, and it is not improbable that they will give interruption to our surveyors. How far these people may be instigated by our neighbors is not decided; but the asperity observable in the British nation towards us creates suspicion that they wish to see our difficulties, of every kind, increase and accumulate. Indeed, I fear that other European nations do not regard us entirely without jealousy. There are some little circumstances which look as if the Dutch regret our having found the way to China; and that will, doubtless, be more or less the case with every nation with whose commercial views we may interfere. I am

happy in reflecting that there can be but little clashing of interests between us and France, and, therefore, that she will probably continue disposed to wish us well and do us good, especially if we honestly fulfil our pecuniary engagements with her. These engagements, however, give me much concern. Every principle and consideration of honor, justice, and interest, call upon us for good faith and punctuality, and yet we are, unhappily, so circumstanced that the moneys necessary for the purpose are not provided, nor in such a way of being provided as they ought to be. This is owing, not to anything wrong in Congress, but to their not possessing that power of coercion without which no Government can possibly attain the most salutary and constitutional objects. Excuses and palliations, and applications, for more time, make bad remittances, and will afford no inducements to our allies or others to afford us similar aids on future occasions.

I send herewith a packet for you from Mr. Hopkinson, and the public papers. The letter will inform you of the death of General Greene; this is a serious loss to this country, as well as his family, and is universally and justly lamented.

With great esteem and regard, I have the honor to be, &c.,

JOHN JAY.

FROM THOMAS JEFFERSON TO WILLIAM CARMICHAEL.

Sir,

Paris, May 5, 1786.

A visit of two months to England has been the cause of your not hearing from me during that period. Your letters of February the 3d, to Mr. Adams and myself, and of February the 4th, to me, had come to hand before my departure. While I was in London, Mr. Adams received the letters giving information of Mr. Lamb's arrival at Algiers. In London we had conferences with a Tripoline Ambassador, now at that Court, named Abdrahaman. He asked us thirty thousand guineas for a peace with his Court, and as much for Tunis, for which he said he could answer. What we were authorized to offer being to this but as a drop to a bucket, our conferences were repeated only for the purpose of obtaining information. If the demands of Algiers and Morocco should be proportioned to this according to their superior power, it is easy to foresee that the