SIXTY-FIRST CONGRESS.

MARLIN E. Olmsted, Pa., Chairman.

H. C. HOUTZ, Clerk.

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,

COMMITTEE ON INSULAR AFFAIRS,

Washington, D. C., Thursday, December 15, 1910. The committee met at 10.30 o'clock a. m., Hon. Marlin E. Olmsted presiding.

The following members of theommittee were present: Messrs. Olmsted (chairman), Hamiltor a sylvania, Parsons, Davis, Mac

Denver, Helm, Rucker of Colo

bard of Iowa, Graham of PennDouglas, Jones, Page, Garrett, and Larrinaga of Porto Rico.

TESTIMONY OF MR. CHARLES H. SLEEPER-Continued.

The CHAIRMAN. Capt. Sleeper, I do not think you have been asked how many acres there are in what you term public lands, or how many there were in the beginning.

Mr. SLEEPER. In the Philippine Islands?

The CHAIRMAN. Yes.

Mr. SLEEPER. That is a very difficult question to answer. We absolutely do not know. No surveys have ever been made, and we have no way to determine at the present time. There is no way of arriving at any calculation that would be anywhere near right.

The CHAIRMAN. What is the best estimate that you can make as to the number of acres of what you call public lands?

Mr. SLEEPER. Forty-five million acres.

The CHAIRMAN. Forty-five million acres?

Mr. SLEEPER. Yes, sir; that is as near as we can come.

The CHAIRMAN. That is the original amount that the United States got from Spain?

Mr. SLEEPER. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. How many acres are there or were there originally of the friar lands purchased by the Philippine Government? Mr. SLEEPER. In the original purchase, you mean?

The CHAIRMAN. Yes.

Mr. SLEEPER. I will have to ask for a copy of that report of Mr. Worcester.

The CHAIRMAN. Give it approximately.

Mr. SLEEPER. Something over 400,000,000 acres.

The CHAIRMAN. Did you put on record yesterday the lease of Mr. Carpenter?

Mr. SLEEPER. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. I will ask you whether Mr. Carpenter obtained permission to go into private business?

Mr. SLEEPER. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. From whom?

Mr. SLEEPER. From the chief executive.

The CHAIRMAN. That is, from the governor of the Philippines? Mr. SLEEPER. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. It has been stated here that there have been recently, within a very short period, thousands of sales certificates made out in your department?

Mr. SLEEPER. Yes, sir; we are making them out very fast at the present time.

The CHAIRMAN. What is the occasion of their being made in such great numbers within the past few months?

Mr. SLEEPER. We have completed the survey, classification of land, and preparation of the areas and values of the various parcels within these estates, so that they are ready for sale in compliance with the terms of the friar land act.

The CHAIRMAN. How did you Mr. SLEEPER. The customers mation was not there on which and so forth.

et so many customers all at once? there all the time, but the inforake the sales-the descriptions

The CHAIRMAN. Were these custoiners occupants of the land?
Mr. SLEEPER. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. They were tenants?

Mr. SLEEPER. They were tenants on the land.

The CHAIRMAN. Have you a uniform form of lease for friar lands? Mr. SLEEPER. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. I notice in this list, which has been furnished here, the names are given and the area and rental and so forth, and, then, after six or seven of them they are marked "special.”

Mr. SLEEPER. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. In those cases the lease was something special? Mr. SLEEPER. They had as a rule some special clause.

The CHAIRMAN. Here is the Thayer lease.

testified concerning this?

Mr. SLEEPER. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Emilio Aguinaldo?
Mr. SLEEPER. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. One thousand and fifty acres?
Mr. SLEEPER. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Will you tell us about that?

Mr. GRAHAM. He testified about that yesterday.

You have already

Mr. MADISON. Yes; in answer to Mr. Parsons. You gave the details of the lease, did you not, Capt. Sleeper?

Mr. SLEEPER. A copy of that is in the record; yes.

Mr. MADISON. You gave the particulars in which it was different? Mr. SLEEPER. I did not; no, sir.

Mr. MADISON. Then do it now.

The CHAIRMAN. What are the special features of that lease?

Mr. SLEEPER. Aguinaldo was not an occupant of this land, although he had formerly occupied some of the friar lands, but not these particular lots on the Imus estate. There were two classes of land which he desired to take up, one of which he thought would raise rice and the other was to be devoted to sugar. Therefore there was a special provision made in this lease separating these two different parcels. One consisted of 262 hectares of land, which was partially cleared and which he thought he could devote to rice. There were 787 hectares of woodland which had to be cleared, which he thought he could devote to the cultivation of sugar. The total area was 1,050 hectares. He went up into the Imus estate, where there were

no occupants, and took up this land, and we therefore gave him better terms than we gave to those occupying lands down below in the irrigated and better class of lands.

The CHAIRMAN. The last immediately preceding here is Gregorio Acuna, who had 44 hectares, paying a total annual rental of 401 pesos, while Aguinaldo had to pay only 468 pesos for 1,050 hectares? Mr. SLEEPER. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. That is because of the inferior quality of his land?

Mr. SLEEPER. Difference in land and difference in conditions existing. That holds through all the other estates-different prices according to difference in lands.

The CHAIRMAN. Aguinaldo is a Filipino, I take it?

Mr. SLEEPER. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. He is the oral Filipino?

Mr. SLEEPER. Yes, sir; Gen.

lio Aguinaldo.

Mr. JONES. Let him go on with that statement about that lease. The CHAIRMAN. Yes; proceed with that.

Mr. JONES. Capt. Sleeper, please complete what you were saying about that land.

Mr. SLEEPER. Aguinaldo wanted to pay a certain sum for the first year of his lease, $210 United States currency for the first year, and at the end of that year it was to be increased to 20 cents gold for the bosque land per hectare per year for each of the two following years, and he was to be entitled to purchase the lands described as the baldio at the minimum rate at which such lands were to be sold in that estate. That is, it was to be classified as baldio, notwithstanding the fact that he had improved it. In other words, he was not to be charged the cost of the improvements when the purchase was made.

The same thing applies to bosque lands, or lands covered with timber and wood. That is the only difference in this lease from other leases, except that he took up a larger area.

The CHAIRMAN. Independent of the question at law, what is your judgment of the wisdom or unwisdom of disposing of these friar lands as rapidly as possible?

Mr. SLEEPER. It seems to me a good business proposition, because I feel that it will be impossible for many, many years to come, unless we do dispose of them to outsiders or nonoccupants, to get the lands under cultivation and producing any kind of revenue to the Gov

ernment.

The CHAIRMAN. There has been some testimony or statements here concerning a lease or sale to Mr. Worcester; E. L. Worcester, I think it is.

Mr. SLEEPER. Yes, sir; that is a lease

Mr. JONES (interposing). Before you go to that, Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask a question or two about this Aguinaldo matter. The CHAIRMAN. Very well.

Mr. JONES. I believe Gen. Aguinaldo lives at Cavite Viejo?

Mr. SLEEPER. Yes, sir.

Mr. JONES. How far from his residence is this land which has been leased to him?

Mr. SLEEPER. Nine or ten miles.

Mr. JONES. I understood you to say it was quite inferior land? Mr. SLEEPER. Yes, sir. It is the southern end of the Imus estate, which is above the line where irrigation can be obtained, and it is a very rough country except in small spots.

Mr. JONES. It can not be irrigated?

Mr. SLEEPER. So far as we know, it can not be irrigated.

Mr. JONES. He owns some land in that vicinity, does he not?

Mr. SLEEPER. Not to my knowledge.

Mr. JONES. He owns or did own a few years ago two farms some 10 or 12 miles from Cavite Veijo, and I wanted to know whether this land was adjacent to the land owned by him, if you know?

Mr. SLEEPER. From conversations with him I should judge that the land that he says he owned, was some of this land on these friar estates that he had the right to purchase, having been a former occupant. That is, the only land now of that he owns or controls. Mr. JONES. Does he not own lathere that he inherited that has been in the family for years?

Mr. SLEEPER. It may be right around his house, but with the exception of that land in and around the town of Cavite Veijo, municipality of Cavite and Noveleta, the entire province of Cavite within 10 miles is friar land.

Mr. JONES. I remember very distinctly of his telling me five years ago that he owned two farms. That was in the days of the reconcentration, when he was claiming he was not permitted to operate these farms.

Mr. SLEEPER. That may be.

Mr. JONES. I wanted to know if those farms were near the land that had been leased to him?

Mr. SLEEPER. I do not see how they could be.

Mr. JONES. I imagine not, from the character of the land, because I understood these lands were fertile valuable lands.

Mr. SLEEPER. Yes, sir.

Mr. JONES. Those are the only questions I wanted to ask, Mr. Chairman.

The CHAIRMAN. Will you tell us the details of the sale or lease, or whatever it was, of lands to Mr. E. L. Worcester. In the first place, were those friar lands or public lands?

Mr. SLEEPER. Mr. E. L. Worcester made application to purchase, or to lease, rather, a tract of land in the province of Nueva Ecija. The CHAIRMAN. Any friar lands?

Mr. SLEEPER. No, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Go on and tell us about that.

Mr. SLEEPER. Mr. Worcester made a regular application on the forms, prepared for the purpose, to lease a tract of land in the Barrio of Cabucbucan, municipality of Bongabon, Province of Nueva Ecija, consisting of 988 hectares and two ares, and submitting a sketch plan of the land he desired. The application is here present. The application was acted upon in the regular manner as prescribed by the general land act.

Mr. DOUGLAS. May I see the form of that lease, if you are not going to use it immediately?

Mr. SLEEPER. Yes, sir.

(The document was handed to Mr. Douglas by the witness.)