fhould take place in the revenue, would be no lofs or confideration, if it produced the beneficial effects defcribed by the right honourable gentleman; for if, by diminishing the ufe of British fpirits, induftry would be promoted, the country would gain an acceffion of ftrength as well as of revenue. With regard to what had been faid of the revenue being compenfated by the duties on the importation of foreign spirits, he could not now fpeak decidedly, perhaps it might open a door for fmuggling; but being a matter of doubt, it certainly, in all its points, was a fubject worthy of the most ferious attention. Upon the whole, acquiescing in the idea of the right honourable gentleman, he believed it might be a great fatisfaction, that the country fhould know without delay that it was in the contemplation of Government to take this ftep; and that the Government, taking into their confideration the existing preffure of fo heavy a grievance upon the lower order of people, as one means of alleviating their diftrefs, had refolved to continue the stopping of the diftillery for another year, the prefent bill expiring in February next.

Mr. HUSSEY rofe to ftate, that it was his intention to have taken the fenfe of the Committee, on the fubject of putting a farther ftop to the malt diftillery, had he not received fatisfaction from the declaration of the right honourable gentleman.

Sir JOHN SINCLAIR, conceived the object of the Committee fhould be, not only to provide, as much as possible, for the present fcarcity, but to prevent, as far as the wifdom of the Legislature could foresee, a return of fimilar inconveniences. There was one part of the bufinefs which occupied the attention of the Committee that deferved particular notice; he meant that which related to putting a stop to the diftilleries. If fuch a measure was necessary, the earlift notice poffible fhould be given of fuch prohibition, as many perfons had embarked large capitals in that bufinefs, who should have every fair and candid indulgence. He was of opinion, confidering distilleries in a national point of view, as far as they regarded the revenues of the country, that even a partial fufpenfion might be unneceffary, provided the diftillers were prohibited from extracting fpirits from any but foreign grain. It was, at all events, proper that gentlemen engaged in this branch of bufinefs, fhould know how far the prohibition had received the fanction of Parlia

ment.

Mr. Chancellor PITT profeffed that he differed materially from the honourable Baronet. He was firmly perfuaded that there should be no exception in favour of foreign grain. It was a self-evident propofition, that whatever tended to the confumption of any fubfti

tute for grain, operated to extend the fcarcity; and if the policy of the law fufpended diftillation, when fuch a measure was calculated for the general interefts of the country, there was no man, or body of men, who could in juftice complain of oppreffion.

Mr. HUSSEY obferved, that potatoes particularly should be exempted from diftillation, as one of the most valuable fubftitutes for bread.

Mr. CURWEN affured the Committee, that there was a great inequality in the prefent harvest. He was of opinion, that corn fhould not be drawn from one county to diftrefs another, as was at prefent customary. He complained that there was no legal regulation for the price of bread, with refpect to the price of flour, as in the cafe of corn. The public, in this particular, were in the power of the Minifter and his employer, and this was a fubje& that required the moft ferious attention of the Committee.He recommended the ufe of barley, which was not only wholefome, but palatable and nutritious, and conceived it highly neceffary that labour fhould be regulated by the price of provifions, which would induce landlords not to let their grounds at high and immoderate rents.

General SMITH faid, he felt great confolation to find a business of such great national importance, treated with fo much harmony and unanimity. He agreed with the honourable gentleman who made the obfervation, that every man in the Houfe should put his shoulders to the question. He had been informed that Government had employed agents to buy up the corn; he had converfed with gentlemen who gave credit to the affertion; but it was a circumstance that he could fcarcely believe. On this subject, he conceived it his duty not to remain filent, as he wished to give Government an opportunity of disclaiming the rumour. He was also affured, that merchants had fent their veffels to different parts to procure corn, but were obliged to leave the markets, in confequence of the agents of Government having bought up and monopolized the grain. If fuch were the cafe, it was very detrimental to the fupply of the country; no man fhould be fuffered to monopolize grain of foreign growth-and in order to excite competition in a commercial point of view, every man fhould be fuffered to ftart fair. He approved of the prohibition of the diftilleries; and concluded by congratulating the Houfe on that diftinguished unanimity of fentiment that prevailed, which could not fail of devifing those means that would be of the greatest benefit to the poor, and of fignal utility to the country.

Mr. Chancellor PITT replied that, till within thefe few days,

he had never heard of such infinuations, and even then from loofe rumour only. He could affure the Houfe, that no agents had been employed by Government at home, and the only grounds for fuch a rumour which he knew of, were the purchases made for the fupply of the ufual contracts, which fupplies, the contractors were to procure in any way they thought proper. So far the idea of Government agents at home, for the fake of monopoly, was deftitute of a fhadow of foundation. He acknowledged, that agents had been employed to fupply our markets with foreign corn, but doubted, at the fame time, whether they might tend to check the fpeculations of individuals. It was a point that would admit of much difcuffion. It was impolitic, upon general principles and in ordinary cafes, he confeffed, to interfere with individual fpeculations; but this inftance was juftified by the peculiar exigency of the times, and was merely put in practice to bring the market to its ufual level. On this occafion, he obferved, that individual merchants had not to contend with the individual merchants of foreign countries; because, from the general fearcity which prevailed in Europe, French agents were employed to obtain supplies at any price, who could only be counteracted by the agents of our Government; and it would have been unfafe, in such a situation, to have relied upon the procefs of individual exertions. Befides, our agents had an opportunity of procuring a fupply when merchants were unwilling to run the risk, being apprehenfive, that before their arrival, the ports might be fhut against importation; or that fuch fupplics might be obtained as would difappoint the fuccefs of their adventure. Hence the merchants were in great uncertainty; though he recognifed the general principle of avoiding any interference in their tranfactions.

General SMITH hoped that the right honourable gentleman. did not fufpect him of having brought forward this inquiry as a matter of charge, and affured him, that he remained perfectly fatisfied with the anfwer he had given.

Mr. FOX faid, that there probably might be peculiar circumftances in the fituation of the country last year, which justified Minifters in taking extraordinary measures to meet the exigence of the crifis. Into the detail of these he should not enter-it would more properly form a fubject of difcuffion in the Committee. But, ftill he could, by no means, approve of the principles; and he yet retained his opinion, that the market would have been better fupplied, if it had been left open to the fair competition of the merchants, and no extraordinary measure adopted. The fpirit of enterprize, and the natural operation of industry, were always

found to be moft beneficial in their confequence to the public; whenever they were attempted to be checked, or any unnatural interference exerted, the refult was uniformly found to be bad, and the danger of all fuch interference received additional confirmation. In all inftances, he believed, experience unequivocally demonstrated that the wifeft and fafeft plan would be, to abstain from checking the natural course of the market, to give full scope to the fpirit of competition, and leave industry to operate unfettered. Of the two caufes fupposed to have had the chief influence in producing the fcarcity, the deficiency of the late harvefts, and the war, he was of opinion, that the war had by much the greatest share. He had ftudioufly avoided introducing politics into the present difcuffion, but if he was allowed to fpeculate in the prefent inftance, he certainly had a right to infer that the war had been more inftrumental in producing a fcarcity than any deficiency, which he contended to have been by no means fo great as had been represented. In answer to this, he might be referred to the argument that Europe was engaged in almoft a general warfare, before this country took any part in the conteft, and confequently, that our interference could but in a fmall degree tend to augment the calamity. But, if fuch an argument could be urged, he had only to afk, independently of the effects produced by our immediate interference, and from which we were in the first inftance exposed to fuffer, whether if Great Britain had fhewn a difpofition for peace, it would not have done much to have paved the way for the fame fentiments in other countries; and not only to have fecured tranquillity and plenty at home, but to have reftored the bleffings of a general peace to Europe?

Sir FRANCIS BARING obferved, that thirty-five years ago, wheat was at 3s. 6d. the bufhel, and then the adventurers loft by exportation. England was a mercantile country, he obferved, and the population fo great, that she could never grow fufficient grain for her confumption. In times of peace, this country was obliged to import a large quantity of grain. Corn was a commodity of that delicate nature, that if it fhrunk in one place, the whole would be affected, and general difficulty and diftrefs would ensue. The two countries where fcarcity moft prevailed, were Great Britain and France; and if a fair competition was fuffered, he had no doubt of our having a fufficient quantity of corn brought to our aid. to the circumstance of Government employing agents, that certainly was incompatible with the general principle of trade, which fhould be left open to competition; but fuch was the nature of corn, that it was difficult to induce the merchants to deal in a commodity of

As

fuch extreme delicacy, for if even a bounty was offered, when they confidered how liable it was to perish, even fuch a bounty would fcarcely be a fufficient ftimulus to the merchants to fupply the markets.

Mr. Chancellor PITT offered a few explanations across the table, on the fubject of the penalties to be provided for by the acts in agitation, which, he faid, were intended to punish in the event of obstruction given on the removal of corn internally, in the fame way as had been formerly provided externally.

After which, motions were made for feveral bills, and agreed to by the Committee.

The Houfe being refumed,

Ordered that the report be now received.

Mr. RYDER accordingly reported from the faid Committee, that he was directed by the Committee to move the House, that a Select Committee be appointed to take into confideration the present high price of corn, and to collect evidence relative thereto; and to report the fame, as it fhall appear to them, to the Houfe, with their obfervations. Ordered.

The Select Committee was then appointed, confifting of Meffrs. Ryder, Pitt, Fox, Huffey, Lord Sheffield, Mr. Plumer, Meffrs. Coke, Bramfton, Bunbury, and Hobart.

Mr. RYDER alfo reported from the faid Committee of the whole Houfe, that he was directed by the Committee to move the Houfe, That leave be given to bring in a bill for amending the laws refpecting the price and affize of bread.-Ordered.

That leave be given to bring in a bill to prohibit, for a time to be limited, the making of starch from wheat and other articles of food, and for lowering the duties on the importation of ftarch, and of other articles made thereof.-Ordered.

That leave be given to bring in a bill to continue, for a farther time to be limited, an act, made in the laft feffion of Parliament, intituled, "An act to prohibit, for a limited time, the making of "low wines or fpirits from wheat, barley, malt, or any other fort "of grain, or from any meal, flour, or bran; and for permitting "home-made fpirits, depofited in the warehoufes for exportation, "to be taken out for home confumption, on payment of duty," -Ordered.

Mr. HUSSEY moved, that it be an inftruction to the gentlemen appointed to bring in the bill refpecting the distilleries, to provide against the diftillation of potatoes.--Ordered.

Mr. Ryder likewife reported from the faid Committee, that he was directed by the Committee to move the Houfe, That leave be VOL. XLIII.

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