which had already received their lordships' | sanction. The principle, it was true, might be modified; it might be enlarged and extended, by the introduction of new clauses, but could never be altered; consequently there was no other alternative now left but to pursue the principle of the Bill faithfully; or, by withdrawing it, begin de novo, and frame a new Bill upon the principle recommended by, the learned prelate. exercise of what he deemed an improper power, though it had even been more wisely exercised. The grounds of relief ought to be founded in law, not made to originate with the legislature. The legis lature were competent to frame a law for the purpose; but farther than that he would never wish the legislature to interfere, or that their opinions should operate upon crimes so as to distribute rewards and punishments. The power which ought He had, long before he had the honour to give relief, should be a judicial power of a seat in that House, and too often created by law, and exercised agreeably since, beheld with no small degree of dis- to the ordinary dispensations of justice, satisfaction, the manner and grounds of where every man injured would come procuring divorces in that House, and was upon equal terms, and where nothing sorry to say, that they frequently ap- could be given or withheld farther than proached to the ludicrous, if not the what the law or laws in being had actually downright ridiculous, and in every sense and specifically prescribed. might be well deemed unbecoming the dignity, gravity, and justice of that House; and in fine, were a disgrace to the legislature itself, which should never, upon any account, be put in situations tending to excite levity and ridicule. No person could entertain a more proper respect, and even veneration for ancient forms than he did,; they were generally founded in wisdom, and well calculated to promote the ends for which they were instituted. When, however, the powers thus created, were perverted or abused; when the real efficient purposes were no longer sought or attainable; he must confess, his respect and veneration decreased in exact proportion to the extent and magnitude of the evil superinduced or permitted. Parties, for instance, came to that and the other House for relief, arising from some misfortune which could in no other manner be palliated or removed. The ground of their application, under circumstances similar to the present, was the commission of a criminal act in one of the parties; too often within the previous knowledge of the party deemed innocent, and not unfrequently, he feared, upon agreement and with pre-concert. In such cases, would any noble lord who heard him, rise and gravely assert, that either party could be deemed innocent? He was persuaded, that not one of their lordships would venture to go that length. This, in his ap prehension, was derogatory, if not directly subversive of every principle of technical or substantial justice, of virtue and sound morals, and of domestic happiness. Such a mode of proceeding was to the last degree unbecoming the dignity of the British legislature. It was an improper He did not wish to impeach the wisdom of former times; but having turned his attention pretty fully to the subject, whether his judgment was well conceived or not, he trusted what he had taken the liberty to submit to their lordships would not be deemed totally impertinent; if however, in the present instance, he should have the misfortune to differ with their lordships, it would be his duty as well as inclination to abstain in future from pressing his crude, though well-intended ideas on the House. The learned prelate seemed to be of opinion, as a divine, that the marriage bonds were dissoluble. He heard the learned prelate with great attention, and should feel a proper diffidence, when he dissented from him, on a subject of this kind; yet, if the learned prelate meant to maintain it, as a general principle, connected with the present mode of giving that principle effect, as in the case of passing modern divorce bills, he doubted much the propriety both of the principle and of carrying it into execution; and that because the proof of individual guilt, in numerous instances, created the evil. When he said this, he wished to be understood, that the intention of separating suggested the means, the act of adultery itself, which was repugnant to the principle of all sound legislation, namely domestic peace, good morals, and family union. He would appeal to every noble lord who heard him, whether constituting a criminal act, as the only medium of relief, was not the strongest possible incentive to the commission of it under certain circumstances? and whether it was not probable, that in many cases, the prospect of a final separa tion, did not operate as an encouragement to these beginnings, which experience has often proved have gradually led to more serious and criminal conse quences. There might, it is true, be possible cases, in which a judicial power properly constituted, might be enabled to give relief; such as incurable disagreements, fixed aversion, and many other untoward accidents, which sometimes unhappily arise in the married state, but the law, he would contend, which might create such a tribunal, ought to have specially in view two points; the preservation of sound morality, farther strengthened and confirmed by the sanction of religion. A very extraordinary species of commentary had gone forth upon what had fallen from him on a former day; and an absurdity in conclusion had been endeavoured to be fixed upon him in consequence thereof. It was represented without doors, as if it had been maintained in that House, if a woman had been guilty of a criminal act, and concealed her shame in several instances, but had at length been detected, such detection would be a good ground for the husband to apply for relief; but that when she committed a similar act openly and publicly, to the disgrace of her sex, and invited persons to be witnesses to it, that the injured husband ought to be precluded all redress. This was a very unfair manner of stating, or rather misrepresenting his arguments and his words. No such expression fell from him; no such argument ever entered his mind; nor could, of course, what he said admit of so unjust and absurd a conclusion. It was not because Mrs. Gooch had acted openly and avowedly in the shameful manner she had done, and not by chance, inclination, stealth, or from passion, but because she acted openly for the purpose of laying a foundation, such as would insure her the attainment of the great object of her wishes, and, for aught that appeared satisfactorily to the contrary, that of her husband likewise. Be the event on the present occasion, what it might, he should have the satisfaction of having discharged his duty, by setting his face openly against a custom, which he was firmly persuaded had proved within the last century so destructive to morals and sound religion, and had in infinitely more instances than appeared either to that House or the public, proved so destructive of the happiness of married people, their parents, children, friends, and relations. The Bishop of Rochester acknowledged, that if he had entertained any doubts upon the subject, the learned lord had completely removed them, both as to the impropriety of sending the Bill to a committee, and therein introducing a new principle, and likewise of the Bill itself, independent of any collateral consideration. Under this impression, he therefore rose to declare his intention of giving the motion a direct negative. The House divided: Contents 10; Not Contents 9. The Bill was accordingly committed for the 12th of March. March 12. The House went into a committee on Gooch's Divorce Bill. The Lord Chancellor spoke against the principle as well as provisions of the Bill, recapitulating the whole of the evidence, as on the two preceding days, and making several pointed observations upon it as he proceeded. The Bishop of St. David's expatiated on the very singular hardship Mr. Gooch must labour under should the Bill be thrown out, and in consequence thereof, so ill treated and injured a man be debarred all future redress, and compelled to live with an abandoned woman: and as the learned lord's arguments seemed to rest chiefly on a presumed collusion between the parties, he thought, in order to clear up that point to the satisfaction of their lordships, it would be proper to call Mr. Woodcock, Mr. Gooch's agent, to be again examined at the bar. Mr. Woodcock was accordingly interrogated as to several particulars, and seemed to return very satisfactory answers, so far as he was acquainted with the transaction as an agent. Being ordered to withdraw, lord Abingdon spoke in favour of the Bill, strenuously contending, that it did not appear that Mr. Gooch had acted in pre-concert. A general conversation now arose, which continued for some time. At length, the first enacting clause for dissolving the marriage of the parties being read, the Lord Chancellor spoke against it, and demanded a division. The committee being counted, there appeared for the clause, Contents, 13; Not Contents 14. His lordship then moved, that the House be resumed, which was agreed to without a division; so that the Bill was rejected. Debate on Mr. Burke's Bill for the Debate on Mr. Burke's Bill for the Regulation of the Civil List Establishments.] Feb. 15. Mr. Burke rose, and previous to his entering on the subject of his intended motion, he moved" that the entries in the Journal of the 6th of April, 1780, be read." They accordingly were read as follows: "Resolved, that it is necessary to declare, that the influence of the crown has increased, is increasing, and ought to be diminished:" and also "That it is competent to this House to examine into, and to correct Abuses in the Expenditure of the Civil List-revenues, as well as in every other branch of the public revenue, whenever it shall appear expedient to the wisdom of this House so to do:" and also "That it is the duty of this House, to provide, as far as may be, an immediate and effectual redress of the abuses complained of in the petitions presented to this House from the different counties, cities, and towns, of this kingdom." This being done, he proceeded to state to the House his occasion for renewing this important business. lutions, which had been made in the last These resolu session of the last parliament, he considered as a valuable legacy bequeathed to the public, and an atonement for the criminal servility which had marked and stigmatized their previous conduct. their present form they were something Even in more than declaratory; they formed a title, and a body of maxims authorising the people of this country to expect from their present representatives that which is declared to be necessary by their predecessors. They were incomplete, indeed, in their present form; they wanted specific conclusions to give the effect and benefit which they held out. It remained for the present parliament to accomplish and fulfil what the other had but begun, that the resolutions, which had been read, might not stand upon the Journals, public monuments of their disgrace. He had intimated to the House, that on this day be intended to renew the important consideration of this business, and offer to them propositions for carrying into effect the resolutions which had been read. He had chosen that day, as it was appointed for the second call of the House, from the prospect of a full attendance; and he was happy to see that his expectations were not frustrated. He would not on the present occasion trouble them so long, by entering so fully into the merits and prac [1224 ticability of the proposed reform as he did the year before; because he was well convinced, that every part of the House was now in full possession of his ideas on the subject. These resolutions were the result of a long, deliberate, and sober debate, when the House was well attended, and place which was friendly to reformation when a spirit pervaded every corner of the and economy. They did not originate in that House; the spirit came from abroad; they came from the high and towering mountain of public spirit, initiated by suffering, and aroused by necessity. It was that spirit which had piled up heaps of complaints and petitions on their table, and had pointed out to them what was necessary and what was looked for. In consequence of this burst of public opinion, the House became virtuous and wise; they attended their duty without any influence of grace, or treasury document in their pockets; and adopted the spirit which their constituents had inspired. fore, the first thing which had struck him On coming into this parliament, there which had been made in consequence of as his duty, was the famous resolutions that spirit; and he had, soon after he came amongst them, given notice of his intention of moving, on that day, for leave to renew the business. This was the purpose with confidence of meeting with men, in the which he rose, and he entertained the new parliament, who would consider it as their duty to go hand in hand with him in carrying into execution the wishes of the people; those wishes which had been delivered in thunder and lightning, and which they now expected to see carried into fruition. It being admitted that a speedy and effectual redress was necessary, there could be no excuse nor apology for not carrying it into execution. The wisdom and power of the present parliament were the foundations on which public confidence could rest. were all that could be conceived to be The wisdom and the power necessary to the accomplishment of this business. The wisdom and the power of parliament were adequate to all the purposes of national security, œconomical government, and public respect. They would not for a moment believe that parliament wanted integrity to adopt what its wisdom suggested, and its power could execute. They would not believe, that they wanted inclination to satisfy the minds of the people, to attend to their legal petitions, to hear and to enquire into the were to apply the remedy. They were not to withhold it, because the people were patient under suffering; or because they were clamorous. They were to study the temper, to look into the constitution, and the state of the governed, and watching their motions, they were to apply the remedy at the proper season. When the petitions were presented to the House, there were general meetings of the people in every county and city of the kingdom; they were legal and grave in their deportment; they were peaceable and loyal: some men in that House had pretended to charge them with illegality in their proceedings; that their meetings tended to disorder and convulsion; and were unwholesome, and unfit to be suffered. Without entering into any refutation of a charge which he considered as ill-founded and ridiculous, he would only say, that whether they were so or not, it became a wise and prudent legislature to attend to the reality and the body of the complaint, and not to the form or the irregularity in which it was made. This was their duty as well as their prudence and policy; and in attending to this, they would choose rather to dissipate complaint by removing the evils, than by correcting the heats arising therefrom. The difference between a wise and an intemperate government was, that the one administered justice and mercy, without being influenced by the petulance, or disturbed by the clamours of the subject; it was not heated by the violence of resentment, nor rendered severe and obdurate by the patience of suffering. An intemperate government, on the contrary, entered into all the heats, alarms, and suspicions of the people; they whipped the infant till it cried, and whipped it for crying. When the people were submissive, the government was cruel; when they were violent, it was cowardly. truth of their complaints, and to grant them the full redress of every actual grievance. They would not give harbour to such a suggestion, until they could reason from experience; and not thinking, therefore, that their representatives wanted integrity, they trusted every thing to their power and their wisdom. The people from every part of the country had declared, that economy and retrenchment was required to the existence of the state, and they considered it as a measure that ought to be adopted. He was happy that in the course of his studies, (if any thing to which he applied himself might be allowed to claim the distinguished appellation) he should have met the public spirit and the public voice on its way. Their ideas had been the same, and therefore he thought himself justified in signing the petitions, and in offering to the consideration of the House such thoughts as arose in his mind on the subject. The people had applied to the House, and though they had not agreed in any one system of complaint, or plan of reform, yet they had all stated either errors or calamities in the administration of government, and expence, which certainly ought to be rectified, although they did not agree in the means. He had not gone along with them in all their ideas, because he did not conceive that they were all practicable or proper. Something good there was in all the petitions; and though they had prepared various plans, and had differed about the mode of redress, there were two things in which they had all agreed; and those were, that retrenchment and œconomy was necessary, and that the influence of the crown was become dangerous, and alarming in its extent. The last object was of the most serious importance; for it was by means of this influence that profusion and extravagance were increased. It was the creating and created power; influence and profusion were mutually dependent on each other, and by their joint force and assistance were supported and increased. They declared the necessity of diminishing that influence, which had rendered the two Houses of Parliament accessary to the power of the crown, instead of being a balance against it. It was the duty of a wise legislature to listen to the applications and the complaints of the people. Like the skilful physician, they were to feel the pulse of the patient, and having discovered the seat and the nature of the disorder, they In consequence of the petitions laid upon their table, two attempts had been made to carry into execution the wishes of the people. An hon. friend of his (colonel Barré) had introduced a plan to correct the abuses in the public expendi. ture, by which the money would be brought to a more speedy account, and be applied more economically to the public service. This plan, founded in wisdom and the fairest probability, was superseded by a scheme of the noble lord in the blue ribbon, who thought that a tribunal erected by himself, dependent on himself, and paid by himself, would answer the purpose of correcting the abuses complained of, better than any other system of regulation: and by this hopeful expedient he took from parliament their ancient, hereditary, inherent right of controlling and checking the public expenditure. He trusted, however, that the House had divested themselves of this right but for a time, and that they would, on reflection, see that they had parted with a great constitutional benefit, for a chimerical, unsubstantial good. He reprobated the conduct of the noble lord in this respect, as at once delusive and ungentleman like. The second attempt to carry into execution the wishes of the people, had fallen upon his shoulders; it was a plan for an economical reform of many abuses in the civil department of government, and for retrenching the influence of the crown, maintained by the emoluments of useless offices, and of unmerited pensions. The House knew the circumstances, and the fate of that plan. It consisted of five Bills, two of which were allowed to be printed, and consequently the young members, as well as the old, were acquainted with them. The first was a Bill for an economical reform of the public expence, by abolishing useless offices and unmerited pensions. The second was a Bill for the better regulation of the civil list revenue and expenditure. These two were printed and known. The other three were objects of the same nature, all forming parts of the comprehensive plan of general reform. His object was twofold; a saving in the public expences, and a reduction of the influence of the crown. This reform he endeavoured to effect, not arbitrarily, piece-meal, and at random, but upon certain principles by which the different particulars, in which he endeavoured to effect a reformation, would be connected into one system, which should grow up by degrees to greater perfection, and be productive of still increasing benefits. He conceived that it was necessary to rescind unmerited pensions, to abolish useless places both in the court and in the state, and to inspect and controul the whole Civil List. By the scheme he had proposed, there would arise a saving to the public of 200,000l. annually, at least. But what he valued more than all this saving, was the destruction of an undue influence over the minds of sixty members of parliament in both Houses. The minister was pleased to receive the proposition with approbation. He paid compliments to the principle, and opposed it by detail. At first, crowded houses were seen in every stage of the business, and there was an appearance of convic tion on the minds of men: they had no objection to the abstract and general propositions, but when they came down to specific reform, they left him and his cause. The squeamishness of the House was such, that after swallowing those parts of the plan for which something might have been said, in respect to the use, the shew, the antiquity, or the respect, they objected to others, for which the most ingenious advocate could not advance an argument. They first dwindled off from one question, and then silently stole away from another, till at last the whole was permitted to moulder and shrink imperceptibly from the view, and he was obliged, after much fatigue, and no success, to give it up, with the mortifying reflection, that his own labours, and those of the House, had produced no benefit to his country. He was fully aware that there were only two causes that could contribute to the success of a general plan of reform. The first and the most natural and easy was the approbation and the support of the minister. When public reform became a measure of state, and the sovereign,was interested in the retrenchment of extravagance, then it became easy and secure. The other cause and occasion of success, was the spirit and the perseverance of the people: when they displayed the grave and rigorous spirit of determination, and soberly applied to their representatives for the reform, which they conceived to be necessary; then it was reasonable to expect that their virtuous resolution would communicate vigour to their representatives, and animate them to their duty. He thought it necessary to state this to the House, as a justification of himself in bringing forward the plan; for nothing could be so ridiculous and romantic as a reformer without probability and prospect. He stated, therefore, those two grounds to justify the prudence of his attempt; since though he was not assisted by the approbation of the minister, he was seconded and supported by the spirit and perseverance of the people. At that time he was so entrenched by the petitions of the people, that he could not raise his eyes and discover the enemy that lay on the other side; now, indeed, the entrenchments were removed, the breast-work was |