stance, relative to the transactions, to which he had been alluding.

the first law officer of the crown; that it was in agitation to remove a certain chief judge (Mr. W. De Grey) and to give him a pension, and to put another person in his room (the Attorney General). He had no doubt of the hon. gentleman's abilities, but considering every circumstance, which applied to that hon. gentleman and himself, he did think, he went not be

Sir Fletcher Norton then said, that he had been applied to by a noble lord, then at the head of administration (the duke of Grafton) upon the death of the late Speaker, sir John Cust, to accept of the very honourable situation he then held. He had, indeed, been strongly solicited to accept of it before he did consent; because he was no stranger to the great weight which was necessarily to be borne, by who ever filled that chair. He had, besides, other reasons of a very forcible nature, that furnished motives which rendered him still more reluctant to comply with the request. An hon. gentleman in his eye (Mr. Rigby) was sent to him, by the noble lord then at the head of administration, to prevail upon him to accept of the nomination of the minister. To this he had very strong objections. His answer was, if he should accept, it must be understood, that he by no means meant to be taken out of the line of his profession; and that, consequently, the way whenever an opportunity offered, should be kept open for his return to Westminster-hall; and when his character, his standing and his general pretensions, were considered, he believed, it would not be deemed arrorogance or vanity in him, to say, that he was then at the head of his profession, as a common lawyer.

Till he was provided for, in the way of his profession, for that was the precedent condition of every thing which followed; he was to have the sinecure he then enjoyed. These were the term which were offered; it was upon these terms he accepted of the place he now held. He had, however, lately heard, what he must say greatly surprised him, that there had been a negociation on foot: he had it, indeed from the best authority, no less than ག

out in, when he affirmed, that neither in point of standing or professional reputation, the person to whom he was alluding, stood fairly between him and the claims he had upon those, who induced him to quit those habits of life, and professional views, which were incident to his then situation.

He had heard from the authority now quoted, that such a negociation was on foot; he meant a negociation between a certain chief judge and the minister, for the purposes already described, and took the earliest opportunity of obtaining a full and explicit declaration upon the subject, from the minister. He knew the noble lord was no friend of his, and took every precaution in his power, to prevent his lordship from taking any advantage in one shape or the other. He accordingly informed the noble lord, previously of his intention of calling upon him, upon an affair of business, and desired in the letter, that the noble lord would have some person present, who should be able to report what might pass at the interview. He called accordingly at the noble lord's house in Downing-street, but was much surprised when he did call to find the noble lord alone. He explained his business, though he confessed, he was much astonished to perceive, that the noble lord, so far as such a circumstance might be supposed to operate, had in part defeated the object proposed by the interview, that of putting it out of the power of the noble lord or himself, to misrepresent or misconceive whatever should pass upon the occasion. So it was, however, and he could not say, but he was greatly disappointed when he proceeded to explain himself upon the subject which induced bim to call upon the noble lord, to find that his lordship affected to be a total stranger to the original transaction, on which his claim in the professional line was founded; and which the right hon. gentleman (Mr. Rigby) was well acquainted with; namely, the condition on which he accepted of that chair; a condition,

perly to the knowledge of the noble lord in the blue ribbon.

that a return into Westminster-hall should be open to him whenever an opportunity offered.

He trusted, that the committee would believe him, when he affirmed, upon his honour, as a gentleman, that he never meant to challenge their attention, upon any subject merely personal to himself; but thinking at all times, that nothing should be kept more pure and unpolluted, than the fountains of justice, he felt when any measure was adopted, no matter under what pretext, that might even af ford a colour for a suspicion that they were corrupted, or that any improper means had been resorted to for rendering the courts of justice subservient to party or factious views: he thought it a duty highly incumbent upon him to take notice of it. He could assert, and was ready to prove, that money had been proposed to be given and received, in order to bring about the arrangement, to which he now referred; and whenever a proper time came, he would prove it to the satisfaction of that House.

He meant to throw himself upon it for protection; and he entertained no doubt, but the House would take up the matter in a proper light, and decide accordingly. He went into a variety of particulars of less moment; and concluded with assuring the committee, that from the very high obligations, and the gratitude resulting from a full and perfect consciousness how little he deserved them, which he owed that House, he was determined to conform his whole conduct, in this business, agreeably to their sense and wishes. He trusted, however, that after a certain period, they would give him one further mark of their indulgence, in permitting him to fly from a situation, which had no possible inducement to continue him in it, but the pleasure resulting from a grateful return of their many signal and unmerited favours.

Mr. Rigby spoke to the original transaction, as far as he knew of it. He said, he had been solicited by a noble duke, then at the head of public affairs, to deliver a message, substantially the same as that reported by the right hon. gentleman; that the right hon. gentleman had to the best of his recollection, stated the particulars with all possible candour and correctness; but as well as he could charge his memory at this distance of time, he never understood, that any of those particulars came regularly or pro[VOL. XXI.]

Lord North rose to declare, that he did not look upon himself responsible for any promise which might have been made by his predecessors in office. The right hon. gentleman had proved to the satisfaction of the committee, and he was persuaded of every other person who had heard him, that such were the considerations on which he accepted of that chair; but he could fairly answer, that he neither knew of the transaction at the time, nor looked upon himself bound when he did come into office by any such promise. There were other parts of the right hon. gentleman's speech, to which in point of fact he could not accede; he meant, that assertion, in which the right hon. gentleman undertook to say, that there was a negociation on foot, such as he had described, and that money had been proposed to be given and received. He assured the right hon. gentleman, that he had been grossly misinformed; and as he was accused of being one of the acting parties, he was entitled to say, that no such negociation was on foot. The right hon. gentleman made a ground of accusation against him, that when he waited upon him at his house in Downing-street, a third person according to his previous desire had not been present. To this he could only answer, that he was extremely sorry there was not a third person present; for if there had, he made no doubt, that what was now brought forward in a stile of high crimination would have been so perfectly and fully explained, as to have rendered this public appeal totally unnecessary.

A long personal altercation now ensued, consisting of a number of assertions and contradictions, till at length

Mr. Dunning rose to the question, and in a short but masterly speech, proved that the Board of Trade was useless, that it was no more than a mere appendage of administration, no matter what administration were composed of; and that consequently it ought to be abolished.

Mr. Attorney General Wedderburn said, that while the conversation which the committee had just heard between a learned gentleman and the noble lord near him, was going on, had he attempted to rise, the committee might have thought his intrusion improper; and some gentlemen might have imputed it to a desire of stopping what it was neither his interest, nor [T]

his wish to suppress. But the conversation being now over, he could no longer remain silent, nor suffer the ccmmittee to go away with an impression, that he wished them to suppose him altogether unconcerned in what had been said. The committee had heard a great deal about negociations and promises relative to places; he begged leave to assure the committee, that he would not accuse the noble lord of a breach of promise to him, because he never would negociate for emolument out of the line of his profession, nor preferment in the line of it, with the noble lord, or any other minister. He said, he had now served his Majesty for ten years in the several offices of Solicitor and Attorney General; that he had endeavoured to do his duty in those offices with all the zeal and ability he possessed; that he hoped he should not be accused of presumption, if he hinted, that in that course of time he had received frequent marks of the intended bounty of his royal master, an honour he highly valued, on account of the quarter from whence it came; but that his uniform rule had been, to pursue the line of his profession without looking to emolument, unconnected with it, and unmerited by him; that the learned gentleman knew that he never treated, that he never negociated, that he never solicited office, that he never would solicit it, but that, as had hitherto happened, he would not go to it, it should come to him; that he would not so disgrace the profession he belonged to, so demean his own character, and betray the interests of his country, as to seek for sinecure emoluments, as a compensation for quitting a profession by which he could maintain himself independent, without any expence to his country. The right hon. gentleman had said, that he had got the great sinecure he enjoyed, as a reward for doing the law business of the privy council, there being at that time no person of the profession belonging to that court. Surely, said he, the learned gentleman has forgot, for at that time the then chief justice of the Common Pleas-[Here sir Fletcher Norton said, no.]-But the At torney General went on, I beg the right hon. gentleman will recollect himself. Sir Eardley Wilmot, the person who now does the business of that court, was then of that council, the present master of the rolls, the present chief justice of the King's-bench, the then chancellor; in short, all the persons of the law that usually belonged to the council.

He said, he knew the great respect due to the character and situation of the right hon. gentleman. No doubt, when the learned gentleman honoured a committee with his opinion, and spoke from that bench, he reduced himself to the level of any other member: but he had been so much accustomed to see him in that chair, the dignity of which he supported with so much strictness, that he could not separate him from his office; he, therefore, bowed with reverence to his great and respectable character, and would combat the weight of his opinion with all the deference that was due to it. He was fully sensible of the justice of the right hon. gentleman's remark, with respect to his unfitness for a law situation, when compared with the character of the right hon. gentleman. In proportion, as he thought highly of the learned gentleman's professional abilities, he thought humbly of his own; the learned gentleman had said, and truly said, that in point of character, of standing, pretensions and education, he was not equally qualified for a common law court with the learned gentleman: he was as ready to allow his superiority, as the learned gentleman had been eager to assert it. But when that gentleman quitted Westminster-hall, to slide first into the enjoyment of a great sinecure, and afterwards to be exalted to the high situation he still held, he left behind him many who continued to labour, with industry and assiduity, in hopes that the line of preferment would be open to them, as a reward for their labours, and a gratification of their ambition. It was rather hard therefore, that the right hon. gentleman should, in addition to his other advantages, throw his mantle over those he had left behind him to toil in the profession, that he should check their preferment, and secure an exclusive claim to himself to return to the profession, not for the purpose of joining in the toil of it, but merely to enjoy those posts of dignity and honour which other men had in the uniform routine of business laboured to merit, and hoped to receive when their turn came. For his part, he said, he looked upon the office of judge to be in its nature and execution so delicate, that it was unfit for soli. citation, that he felt the character as too weighty ever to think of soliciting such an appointment as a favour, while at the same time he owned, he had not such an opinion of his own insufficiency as to make him ready to say, that he would reject an appointment, if voluntarily offered by those

who were entrusted with the power of judging of the propriety of the appointment. Whatever honours his Majesty might chuse to bestow upon an humble individual, he would receive them with respect and gratitude; but he never would enter into a negociation with, or exact a promise from any minister.

He then turned to lord North, and in a degree of satire, and a warmth of eloquence, equally polished and poignant, equally severe on the Speaker and honourable to himself, but which suffers from our not being able to do it justice in this report: he said, with respect to his pretensions, he gave the noble lord a carte blanche ; he declared, that as long as their political life went on together, he never would, upon any occasion, remind the noble lord of any promise he might have made to him-that he never would accuse him of breach of promise that he never would be so forgetful of his own character, as to make private differences matter of public complaint, and that he would not so degrade himself, or be so lost to the decorum that was due to that House, as to call upon them to interfere in a private negociation, nor would he so humble his character as to make a difference with a minister the ground of his opinion, upon a great and important political regulation.

Mr. Attorney then went into a consideration of the clause in question, the tendency and consequences of which he placed entirely in a new light, and shewed, that the Bill, by enacting that the business of the Board of Trade should hereafter be performed by a committee of council, revived an exploded and universally condemned system of business. Committees of council had, as our history afforded repeated instances, been intrusted with the operative and executive powers in various departments of the national business, and long experience had proved, that from a multitude of different causes, committees of council had not answered their end in this respect; it was therefore from the fullest conviction, grounded on repeated trials, that the Board of Trade had been instituted with a hope of its being able to prove itself an efficient board, and to do that, which committees of council had been found incapable of performing. He rallied the Speaker upon his opinion respecting the influence of the crown being enormous, about the Board of Trade being useless, and about the futility of the distinction between the household and the

board under consideration, declaring that if the ipse dixit of any man, without proof, was to be the ground of decision, it was unnecessary either to argue or deliberate; and he concluded with shewing, that diminishing the power of the crown below its just proportion, would enable a selfish proscriptive aristocracy to rule the country, with all the tyranny attending such a government.

At a quarter past two in the morning the committee divided. For abolishing the Board of Trade 207; Against it 199; Majority for abolishing the Board of Trade 8.

Debate on Lord North's Bill for appointing Commissioners to state the Public Accounts.] March 13. Lord North rose and moved for leave to bring in a Bill "for appointing and enabling Commissioners to examine, take, and state, the Public Accounts of the Kingdom; and to report what Balances are in the hands of Accountants, which may be applied to the Public Service; and what Defects there are in the present mode of receiving, collecting, issuing, and accounting for, Public Money; and in what more expeditious and effectual, and less expensive manner, the said services can in future be regulated and carried on, for the benefit of the public." The Bill was directed to three different objects. The first was to inform that House and the public, the real state of the accounts of the kingdom, that the nation might be informed how and in what manner the enormous sums which had been granted by parliament have been disposed of; the second was by ascertaining the outstanding balances, to enable government to compel payment; and the last by discovering the defects, to prevent such inconveniences in time to come. He confessed that the course of

accounting at the Exchequer was far from being applicable to the increased state of the national expenditure. If on no other account, the inconvenience that arose from delay was obvious; it gave rise to suspicions there was no ground for; the cause being incidental to the manner of passing accounts. It was therefore a desirable object to remove those suspicions, while on the other hand it was equally to be wished that the public should at all times have full credit for the monies voted for public services. However earnest he was to promote those several objects, he wished nevertheless to proceed with circumspec