tion, and recommended gentlemen to think | which I intended to have brought in, that seriously on the consequences of abolish- the public may judge which of the two ing an old system, without being first Bills is best calculated to give the people thoroughly satisfied that the one meant to that satisfaction they require, and are enbe introduced in its place was at least less titled to. exceptionable. The defects in the old Mr. T. Townshend contended, that the mode of accounting arose chiefly from noble lord's Bill carried on the face of it delay; in every other respect it was al- the strongest marks of ministerial deceit lowed to be unequalled; it would there- and imposition. It was not only delusive, fore behove parliament, when they were but it contained a direct insult on the going to adopt a plan of expediting the House. It impeached, at once, their inpassing of the public accounts, to see that tegrity and abilities, and implied either no opportunities for introducing fraud one or the other of these two things, that might be introduced. He had reconsi- half a dozen gentlemen could not be sedered what had been thrown out upon a lected out of 558, of which that House former day, respecting the fittest persons was composed, equal to the task; or that to be appointed to fill the commission, being equal to it, they were not to be and was still of opinion that they ought trusted. The pretence of party predilecnot to be members of that House: first, tion was a mere trick. Were there no because it would take up their whole time, party men out of that House? Was facand of course draw their attention from tion and party confined within those walls? the business going on in parliament; No; the same hopes, the same fears, and secondly, that be the commissioners who the same sentiments, according to circumthey may, no matter from which side of stance and situation, pervaded every breast the House selected, it would be deemed a in the kingdom, of a station in life, at party appointment. If named, or a majo- least, fit to be nominated in such a comrity of them named, from among his friends, mission. The noble lord in one instance, much might and would be thrown out as well as the other, would have the nomiagainst the propriety of such an appoint-nation; and if any influence arose on that ment. If from the other side, he was persuaded that similar objections would arise. On this idea he was determined that the persons he should have the honour to submit to the consideration of the House, should not be members of it; and to remove every suspicion, he meant that they should be such as enjoyed no place or profit or emolument under the crown. This was all he had to offer at present. He then moved for leave to bring in the Bill. I Sir George Yonge said, he should be glad to know whether the commission was to be perpetual, how many commissioners were to be appointed, and in what manner they were to proceed. He reprobated the exclusion of members of that House. Col. Barré. It has been said that the noble lord has stolen my Bill from me. will do him the justice to declare, that he has not; the Bill he has moved for is his own, and such as it is, he is entitled to the sole honour that will arise from it. The idea, indeed, upon which it is founded, was originally mine; but the noble lord has taken it upon himself: how far he has improved upon the idea, the public shall most certainly know, for I will move for the printing the Bill after it shall be once read, and then I will contrast it with that account, it availed very little, whether his lordship selected his friends from the opposite benches, or picked them up in the street, or the next assembly he went to: besides, if members of that House were appointed, they would be doubly responsible; both in their places there, and as commissioners; whereas the persons to be appointed by this Bill, would only be amenable like any other set of individuals, to the courts of justice under the provisions of the Bill. Mr. Burke said, he gave his most hearty negative to the present proposition; so far, in particular, as it went to exclude members of that House. He could not but think it a scandalous reflection upon them, and disparaging them in the eyes of their constituents, who would by this open stigma be told what kind of persons they were looking up to for a redress of griev ances; for though the grievances chiefly complained of, were abuses in the expenditure of the public money, the principle of the proposed Bill amounted to an acknowledgment, that their representatives in parliament had neither honour, honesty, or ability to discharge the most essential part of their duty. Lord Irnham said, that to inspect the public accounts was the peculiar province of the Commons; and to delegate that power to persons who had not received it from the people, was what he would by no means consent to. The Attorney General defended lord North for proposing, that no member of parliament should become a commissioner. Every former commission which had been formed of members of parliament, had failed to produce the effect; and the only one that had produced any good, was that of which Mr. Charles Townshend used to boast; and which that gentleman held to have been successful, merely because members of parliament had not been concerned in it. If the noble lord had had in view to give a quietus to a certain accountant, as had been insinuated, he must have worded his motion in a very different manner; for in its present form it could never answer that end. Mr. Dempster was disinclined to have members of parliament excluded from the commission. He was of too little consequence to be a commissioner, but so great was his desire to see the national accounts put in a way of examination, that he was ready to become door-keeper to the commissioners, to hand them pens, ink and paper, and to act as their messenger, without either fee or reward. He felt himself much hurt, as an individual, that members were not deemed worthy of being intrusted with the concerns of their constituents. He trusted, that was not the case, though the noble lord's proposition clearly implied it; for he was fully convinced, that there were many persons, who now heard him, of as great abilities, as uncorrupt principles, and who entertained as great a regard for them, as ever sat in that or any other popular assembly. Mr. James Luttrell could not sufficiently express his disapprobation of the minister's intention to appoint a commission of gentlemen out of parliament, and desired the House to look well to the danger it threatened; for if the minister could refer an enquiry into the public expenditure to persons out of the House, he might with equal propriety make the like reference of any other matter, by which the very nature and power of parliament would be totally done away. Sir W. Meredith was of opinion, that there could not exist a character more despicable, than the man who could sit in the House, and patiently see the rights of parliament trampled on in the manner the noble lord attempted to trample on them. Lord Newhaven very much disapproved of the motion, was confident there were many gentlemen in parliament, who would act up to the intention and end of the commission of accounts, and, for his part, was ready to give up his time and labour to it without any views of interest, or any thing like it. Mr. Alderman Harley said he had for several years past heard the same subject touched upon. Gentlemen were constantly wishing for an inquiry into the public accounts, and never wished it, without throwing out the severest censure against. certain persons, whose description he answered. As to an inquiry, he sincerely wished it. There was no one more ready than he was to meet it. He knew the character that had gone abroad of the present contractors, and knew that they were traduced and vilified. He himself was accused of being a public defrauder, but there was nothing more false and unjust. The contractors were greatly misrepresented, and the people of England grossly deceived and imposed upon. Conscious how little he had deserved the epithets applied to him, he had long thought of complaining to the House of it; for he conceived the House were in a manner bound to vindicate the honour of their members when injuriously attacked. His character had been unjustly traduced and abused in the upper House. A noble lord (Shelburne) had spoken of the contractors, as the hellish contractors, for that they had practised things that made humanity shudder. The noble earl had alluded to him in a very particular manner, and thrown out, that in Canada he had attempted as bad a thing as some particular gentlemen in India, when they made a purchase of all the rice in the country; for that they had endeavoured to get all the corn into their own hands. Nothing could have been uttered more false than this; it was a diabolical falshood, not that he should have regarded it so much, but that the noble person had not asserted what he had asserted in the warmth of temper, or heat of debate, but coolly and deliberately upon a motion on which the Lords had been summoned.-As to the state of his accounts with government, he wished from his soul that they were to be inspected into. They might at any time be looked into in the space of two hours, and he challenged the strictest examination into them, for he was well assured there was nothing more required to prove how ill he deserved the assertions thrown | of another. The account stated Spanish upon him. He had been charged with or Portugal coin, then the remittances making usurious contracts, than which no were in English guineas, and lastly in charge could be worse founded. He had paper. He was glad to hear that the hon. no more than the profits usual in the gentleman could prepare his accounts in course of business, and so far from being the space of a couple of hours, and wished, under an obligation to government, go- as that was the case, they were examined vernment on the contrary was obliged to into without delay. He then adverted to him, as he gave the nation credit, fre- the resolution of leaving members of parquently accepting and paying bills, and liament out of the commission, and insisted making investments before he was in cash upon it, that it was nothing less than disor credit for government account.-He franchising parliament of their just rights entered minutely into the nature of his at all times to enquire into the expendidealings with government, and said he ture of public money. As to the case was obliged to give great credit; that his mentioned by the Attorney General, of a contract was to serve for Portugal coin; commission of accounts upon the plan at but as that was not at present to be had, present proposed, he denied it was a case English guineas were now exported in lieu in point, for that the commission alluded of it. He again declared the suspicion he to was not to examine generally into the was obliged to lie under for the want of expenditure of public money, but merely an examination of his accounts, and that to liquidate some demands made upon us at the late election for the county which in consequence of the German war. his ancestors had represented, he was chosen with all the odium of the gold contractor, and the public defaulter, upon his back. He valued himself, he said, upon the noble blood of his family, it was an ancient family, and he was proud of preserving the honour of it, by being its representative in that House, for which reason he hoped the House would direct an inquiry into his accounts, as they might be prepared in two hours, and he thereby proved to be as deserving of their esteem and good opinion as his ancestors before him had ever been. Mr. Burke said, it did not signify from what family the hon. gentleman had descended. It might, no doubt, be very ancient, and very honourable, but the House of Commons was not a court of heraldry. His birth and family had nothing to do with the question. They were not to connive at the malversations of a man because he was great, nor to punish him for being poor. He was sure what the hon. gentleman said would have great weight, but the paper he then held in his hand proved the necessity of an enquiry into the public accounts, for it proved the existence of the grossest abuse. The title of the paper was a charge for the purchase and exportation of Portugal gold, and now that the fact was enquired into, no Portugal gold had been bought or exported. The Portugal gold turned out to be English guineas, or remittances or acceptances in the course of negotiation of bills of exchange. This he observed, amounted to ingrafting one contradiction upon the stock Mr. Alderman Harley said that the title of the paper was the same as it had been for twenty years past. Portugal coin was said to have been purchased, but only English guineas were actually bought. This he allowed to be somewhat improper, but it was at present as it had been for many years past. It had been precisely so during the late war, during the administration of the late earl of Chatham, while Mr. Pitt, and it was necessarily the case, because it was against law to export the current coin of the kingdom, and the wording of the account was agreeably to the ancient usage of office. Unfortunately the balance of trade having been for some years past against us, in our commercial intercourse with Spain and Portugal, the gold and silver coin of those countries were become so scarce, that we were under the necessity of exporting the current coin of the kingdom. Means, however, had been adopted to prevent the evil as much as possible. Mr. Welbore Ellis was of opinion, that it would be more proper to appoint persons who were not members to the commission; because, if none but members should be named, the commission might be vacated; for who could tell that the members so appointed would be re-elected at the ensuing general election. Whatever difficulties might arise, there was one point on which he had clearly made up his mind, that such a Bill had become absolutely necessary. He spoke in a double capacity, both as a member of that House, and a person enjoying a place of consider. rights and property of the people, and derogatory from the honour and dignity of parliament: your petitioners, therefore appealing to the justice of this honourable House, do most earnestly request, that, before any new burthens are laid upon this country, effectual measures may be taken, by this House, to enquire into, and correct, the gross abuses in the expenditure of public money, to reduce all exorbitant emoluments; to rescind and abolish able trust under the crown. Under the former description he thought the trial was worth making; under the latter no person wished more sincerely to be relieved from the anxiety every honest and prudent man must feel in his situation, where he was supposed to hold public money in his hands, which never reached them. He was an admirer of short and clear accounts, and as such the Bill was entitled to his warmest support. After some further debate leave was all sinecure places and unmerited pensions; given to bring in the Bill. Westminster Petition for an Economical Reform.] Mr. Fox presented a Petition from the City of Westminster, setting forth, "That this nation hath been engaged for several years in a most expensive and unfortunate war; that many of our valuable colonies, having actually declared themselves independent, have formed a strict confederacy with France and Spain, the dangerous and inveterate enemies of Great Britain; that the consequence of those combined misfortunes hath been a large addition to the national debt, a heavy accumulation of taxes, a rapid decline of the trade, manufactures, and land rents of the kingdom: alarmed at the diminished resources and growing burthens of this country, and convinced that rigid frugality is now indispensably necessary in every department of the state, your petitioners observe with grief, that, notwithstanding the calamitous and impoverished condition of the nation, much public money has been improvidently squandered, and that many individuals enjoy sinecure places, efficient places with exorbitant emoluments, and pensions unmerited by public service, to a large and still increasing amount, whence the crown has acquired a great and unconstitutional influence, which, if not checked, may soon prove fatal to the liberties of this country: your petitioners, conceiving that the true end of every legitimate government is not the emolument of any individual, but the welfare of the community, and considering that, by the constitution of this realm, the national purse is entrusted in a peculiar manner to the custody of this honourable House, beg leave further to represent, that, until effectual measures be taken to redress the oppressive grievances herein stated, the grant of any additional sum of public money, beyond the produce of the present taxes, will be injurious to the and to appropriate the produce to the necessities of the state, in such manner as to the wisdom of parliament shall seem meet." Mr. For said, that the petition was from the gentlemen, clergy, and inhabitants of Westminster, paying taxes. The persons who had subscribed it, had set their names to it voluntarily, and from a full conviction of the necessity of a general reform in the expenditure of the public money. He had an opportunity of going amongst the petitioners, and though the taxes were in particular burthensome to the cities of London and Westminster, yet he knew that they would bear them without murmuring, could they think the amount of them were properly applied. He trusted no gentleman would think the petitioners factious, for the House had not thought them so. They had already produced some good effect, and he believed the House would not dare to reject their prayer. When he used the word dare,' he did not mean to threaten the House, but only said they would not dare, because he knew they saw that they ought not to refuse giving the petitioners satisfaction. He said the different committees had held a general meeting, and had laid down a grand plan of association. The great object of redress, he said, would be pursued peaceably but firmly. The members were determined to act agreeably to the constitution, but with a proper spirit. He ridiculed the minister's appointing a commission of account, and pronounced it a farce. The noble lord would, in a commission so constituted, be his own judge; for he was to nominate the commissioners, and to pay them. The noble lord only having the idea of pension or place, could not think of filling up the commission with a placeman or a pensioner, though in fact the persons to be appointed under the present Act, must be rewarded for their trouble. They would be placemen with large sa laries, as soon as they entered upon their offices; they would be pensioners ever after, till they were provided for; and he knew of more than one instance, where, after a pensioner had been provided for, by giving him a place, his pension was nevertheless continued to him.-He adverted to the rum contract, and that part of the noble lord's speech, at which he challenged the House to call upon him, and remarked that his lordship wished to be an evidence as well as judge for himself. He had frequently been charged in the face of parliament, with entering into a fraudulent contract with Mr. Atkinson, but how did the noble lord exculpate himself? He told them, that he was imposed upon by Atkinson. What means did the noble lord take to bring the offender to justice? By instantly entering into another contract, at a higher price. His first contract was the same as that made by the victualling office; his second was still 9d. a gallon dearer. In the last, the noble lord said, he mistook currency for sterling; but now at the end of two or three years, what step had the noble lord taken to bring this public defaulter to public justice? No one whatever. He again stated to the House, the necessity of paying a proper attention to the petitions of the people of England; the one he had just now presented, was signed by upwards of 5,000 electors. They were temperate, moderate and peaceable; but they were unalterably firm in their resolution of obtaining redress. They called for a full and satisfactory reformation; they were determined to have it. introduction of it merely to touch an individual, and that individual myself; yet, when fully stated, and weighed in your minds, I trust it will be found to involve a most important public concern; especially in the present critical situation of the government of this country, and at the eve of an expiring parliament. I shall, as concisely as possible, state some principal facts, in support of which, evidence is ready for your bar, and which evidence will, I presume, come forth clear, substantial, and decisive; as it certainly ought, on a charge of high criminality thus moved against the most exalted and decorated character of your own body, and who also is the first confidential servant of the crown; I mean the noble lord facing me with the blue ribbon. The current session is the sixth during which I have sat here as member for Milborne Port; and though in political measures, uniformly and entirely guided by my own free sentiments, yet have I been so fortunate as to find my parliamentary conduct approved of by those who sent me hither; and their unsolicited public thanks were some time since transmitted to me in terms the most flattering. Not only have I experienced the good wishes of the several electors and inhabitants, but also in a peculiar manner, those of Mr. Thomas Medlycott, heretofore a member of this House, who owns a considerable estate in the borough of Milborne, from which he resides scarcely a hundred yards distant. He has, as well by letter as otherwise, repeatedly acknowledged service to him performed on my part, and professed towards me the most grateful return and zealous attachment; particularly for what might regard my future Complaint against Lord North respect-connection with the same constituents I ing the Purchase of the Borough of Milborne Port.] March 6. Mr. Temple Luttrell complained of " divers undue and corrupt practices respecting the election of members to serve in parliament for the borough of Milborne Port in the county of Somerset, at the approaching general election, committed by the right hon. Frederick lord North, chancellor of his Majesty's exchequer, and others acting as his agents in the said transaction:" and afterwards moved, for eight persons to attend, in order to be examined at the bar of the House. Mr. Luttrell on this occasion said: The House will permit me to ask attention for a few minutes, on a subject, which however it may seem in the The Petition was ordered to lie on the table. now represent; insomuch, that about two years ago he signified his hopes in writing, that I should keep, by the most unexceptionable tenure, the seat I now hold, till his eldest son, aged about 11, should at least attain 21 years. Thus circumstanced, and in habits of confidence and friendship with the borough in general, it was not till the late Christmas recess that I could harbour the least doubt of my being again elected for Milborne Port. To my extreme astonishment I then learnt, that a treaty between the first lord of the Treasury and Mr. Medlycott, for the sale and purchase of the borough representation, had been clandestinely on foot ever since March last, when I was far enough |