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of the House of Commons that might be tance. Plymouth, on the first day of the injurious to the just prerogatives of the session, had been acknowledged by the crown, or the rights of the people; but first lord of the Admiralty, to be equal in we will not bear the gross abuse of this value to one third part of the kingdom, at constitutional power; or that this House least as applied to our national defence, should set itself as an obstruction to the our navy. He was therefore warranted, most honourable, manly, and virtuous re- from the first naval authority to conclude, solution ever come to by an House of that the safety of Plymouth was an object Commons; a resolution made in direct of very great magnitude. The ruin or conformity to the petitions of their con- conquest of the country, would not, he stituents. We protest, therefore, against believed, be the consequence of the deour standing in the way of even the first struction of Plymouth; but as a maritime steps taken towards promoting the inde- power, it would be such a blow as would pendence, integrity, and virtue of a probably lay us at the mercy of our eneHouse of Parliament.(Signed) De mies. If such an event should ever take Ferrars, Rockingham, Abergavenny, place, it would be problematical with him, Fortescue, Courtenay, Wycombe, whether we should ever again be able to Ponsonby, Percy, Ferrers, Pem- preserve our independence as a naval broke and Montgom. Scarborough, power. That such an event was very near J. St. Asaph, Beaulieu, Osborne, taking place, their lordships would be Cholmondeley, Manchester, Coven- fully convinced, should they agree to the try, St. John, Fitzwilliam, Abing-motion which he was about to submit. don, Portland, Devonshire. The scandalously defenceless state of "For the first and third reasons, adopt- that important fortress, when the coming however very heartily in the present bined fleet appeared before it in August state of parliamentary representation the last, had already undergone a considerasound principles contained in the second, ble discussion; and he could now prove, which yet I conceive inapplicable to this from the most respectable and authentic Bill. authority, that of the general officer (sir David Lindsay) who commanded there at the time, that nothing fell on that day from the side of the House on which he had the honour to sit,,which could not be fully proved from the authority just al

RADNOR."

Debate on the Duke of Richmond's Motion respecting the Defenceless State of Devon and Cornwall.] April 25. The order of the day being read,

The Duke of Richmond rose, and in-luded to. formed their lordships, that the motion he meant to submit to the consideration of the House, related to the state of Plymouth and its vicinities at the time the combined fleets of France and Spain ap. peared before it, in August last. He would not say, that the object of his motion was of the very first importance, because, in truth, he knew of many other matters of much greater. He knew it did not present an object to their lordships equal to the loss or re-possession of 13 American provinces, nor would the loss of Plymouth be so important in its consequences, as the capture of Jamaica, and our other West India islands. He was ready to acknowledge, that it was not so alarming, as the increased, and rapidly increasing influence of the crown, nor likely to be so fatal as the want of unanimity at home. But, although the comparative loss, or rather preservation of Plymouth, must give way to the other objects he had pointed out, it would not thence follow, that Plymouth was of little impor

He said, he was fully aware what disadvantages he, and noble lords who acted with him, laboured under, when they made any motion tending to an enquiry into the conduct of those, who, unfortunately for their country, led, or voted in the majorities of that House. Little good was to be expected from any attempt of the kind, whenever the noble lords in office set their faces against it. He need adduce no stronger proof than the fate of a late enquiry, which, instead of a deserved censure, ended in a vote of thanks, though the evidence delivered at their lordships' bar, and recorded on the Journals, exhibited proofs, that if the noble lord was not legally convicted of any crime, there were several parts of his conduct which loudly called for reprehension. [Enquiry into the management of Greenwich Hospital.] This unpromising aspect, relative to what he had a right to expect, in every future effort of a similar nature, should not discourage him from pursuing the steady line of his duty. It

was one thing to attempt; it was another to ensure success. Be that as it might, how great soever the difficulties and discouragement, he should have one consolation in reserve, that the ruin in which he perceived the nation daily more and more involved, had not arisen from mere accident, but that its footsteps had been discovered and marked out in all its successive stages; consequently those who pursued this conduct would be totally guiltless of the calamities which were about to fall on the nation.

The vast importance of Plymouth to the maritime strength, and consequently to the preservation of this kingdom, against the attempts of bold or daring invaders, had been fully acknowledged on every side of the House. If, then, popular opinion, if his own particular knowledge, or the report and opinion of every respectable officer of rank and experience, who commanded there at the time stated in the motion, deserved any attention, he was warranted in inferring that their lordships would see at once the necessity of his proposed enquiry. To bring the motion forward in the best manner, was his wish, and the only difficulty which suggested itself to him on the occasion, was, whether it should be directed to the present state of that fortress, or be confined to its state and condition at the time the combined fleet appeared before it last autumn. Upon the fullest consideration, he was for taking the former course, because, either it was in a proper state of defence when the combined fleet appeared before it, and consequently continued so still; or, having been at the former period defenceless, ministry, more particularly the commander in chief, had taken the proper steps for that purpose. He had warned the noble lord at the head of the staff, immediately on the rupture with France, in 1778, and with Spain in 1779, and upon several subsequent occasions, of the necessity there was for taking particular care and paying every possible attention to the defence of Plymouth, and that part of the country. He had repeated his admonitions last summer, at the close of the session; and it was still fresh in their lordships' recollection, what a long discussion the subject underwent on the first day of the session. Under such circumstances, it was fair to presume, that Plymouth was in such a state of defence, as to stand the test of the most rigid enquiry, and that a knowledge of its real strength, instead of operating as an

invitation to the attack of an enemy, would have an effect the very reverse, and would discourage our enemies from any future attempt.

It might be objected to this, that it would be extremely improper to have the present state of Plymouth laid before the House; because, though no possible inconvenience could arise from any of their lordships being made acquainted with it, yet, notwithstanding every precaution that could be taken, it would be impossible to conceal it from our enemies. This was the old story, and a most ridiculous flimsy pretext it was, to keep their lordships and the public ignorant of every circumstance relative to our real situation; as if our enemies were not much better informed of the real number, state, condition, and situation of our troops and navy, our naval arsenals, fortresses, and different places of strength within the kingdom, not only than their lordships, but he believed he might add, than the noble lords in office, or what might sound still stronger, than the noble lord on the cross bench, the senior general officer on the staff.

Such were his general ideas; but lest it might be the means of conveying to our enemies a more minute knowledge than it would be prudent at this time to risk, he had, as well to accommodate the motion to the wish of some of his friends, as to obviate every possible objection on that ground, resolved to decline his original intention, and confine his motion for an enquiry into the state of Plymouth, as it stood in August last. He would not trouble their lordships by recapitulating the different particulars which had from time to time dropped in that House; he would not allude to any thing which had come out on the same subject in another place; nor insist upon the prevalent opinion without doors, which all united to fix and ascertain one established fact," that Plymouth was in a most defenceless state when the combined fleet appeared before it." To know whether this was true, or if false, to disprove it, it was become highly necessary, not so much by way of retrospect as prevention, to go into an enquiry on the subject, and see to whom the neglect, if any, was imputable; and such a measure was become infinitely more incumbent upon their lordships, because by the present military arrangement of command, or government of the army, there being no commander in chief, or person responsible to that House, which was a

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subversion of that defined principle of the constitution, that always presumes in every act of the state, in council, and every thing, flowing from the advice given in that council, that somebody is responsible in every department of government.' It was true, that the noble lord to whom he had so often alluded discharged the duties of a commander in chief. Why had not his lordship the unqualified appointment? He understood he had already possessed all the emoluments of the post; why, then, should his lordship be put into a situation for which he was not to be responsible, unless it were to evade all censure in the event of incapacity or neglect. Perhaps the noble lord had no power to act, but was under the direction of others. If so, he was ready to declare, that he sincerely pitied him; if on the other hand, his lordship possessed the power annexed to the post of commander in chief, as well as the emolument, he said, such a shifting, equivocal arrangement, was a flagrant imposition upon the public, and the whole of the military profession; because, every act, however weak, tyrannic, or unjust, might, to answer purposes according as circumstances should arise, be on this day shifted from the senior officer of the staff, and the next be thrown back upon his Majesty's confidential servants. There was, besides, another very urgent reason for the appointment of a commander in chief at this time, namely, the extensive military operations we were engaged in, in almost every quarter of the globe. In such a predicament, how did the case stand? No person was responsible for the military measures carrying on; they might be conceived in folly, planned in rashness, or have originated in treachery; but let them be ever so ill-judged, there was no man to whom blame could be imputed; there could be no redress, either by way of example or prevention. If this or that measure was imputed to the noble lord, he was prepared with a short answer: He was not responsible, for he was not commander in chief. Call the next under him to account, he gave a similar answer; and so on to a third, a fourth, &c. so that the responsibility was shifted from shoulder to shoulder, till it was impossible to fix it, unless we traced upwards, and concluded that the cabinet council discharged the duties of the commander in chief, or in the language of some in great confidence with their sovereign, that the King was his own com

mander in chief, as well as his own minister.

In the instance of Plymouth last summer, it was singularly unfortunate there had not been at the time a commander in chief; for although the place was in a naked, defenceless state; though the inhabitants of the town, and the whole adjacent country and coast, were to the utmost degree alarmed; though in this deplorable situation of fright, terror, and real danger, during the time the combined fleet lay before it, which was upwards of 36 hours; even in this scene of consternation, and the people flying on every part from the water side, he said, the command in such a critical moment was divided between three persons, namely, the military officer or commander of the troops, sir David Lindsay; the admiral of the port, lord Shuldham; and the commissioner of the dock yard, Mr. Ourry; though not one of them had a controul over the other, nor any instructions to act in case of emergency. The governor of Plymouth, lord Waldegrave, was in London. The moment he heard of the situation of the place, he proposed to repair to his government, but an insurmountable difficulty arose. The noble lord, the governor, was a senior officer to the noble lord at the head of the staff, and of course could not serve with propriety under a junior officer. This was another inconvenience which arose for want of a commander in chief; for in that case, the noble earl who was governor of Plymouth, might, agreeably to the rule of the army, have served under the noble lord. The noble earl to whom he had so often alluded, was an officer of long experience, and tried courage and ability. He did not speak from hearsay, he had himself been a witness of his professional skill, and how well he deserved from his country. The circumstance he alluded to was, his being present at the battle of Minden, when he saw the noble earl lead up six regiments of British infantry, which alone stood the shock of the whole French army; and after one of the most gallant efforts ever made, with very little assistance, put it to flight, and obtained a signal victory, though outnumbered ten times over.

Such being the case, it was not only that all responsibility was gone, in respect of military measures, but that we were likewise deprived of the assistance of some of our most gallant officers; and that at a time when we stood most in need

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of them. The merits of the noble earl | tion on the same subject. It was, when were passed over, because not being on his lordship, being pressed on account of the staff, it was impossible he could serve the defenceless state of Plymouth, replied, beyond the limits of his government; nor If it was defenceless it was not his fault, even then, if the present noble lord, senior for every thing which could be reasonably of the staff, should happen to be there. expected from him had been done. This In his opinion, therefore, his Majesty's clearly was an implied censure on those ministers ought to advise the King to in- who were entrusted with the execution of vest the noble lord with the post, as well his orders, and would come out, upon enas emoluments, of commander in chief. quiry, not to be the case; for as to the defence of Plymouth, there was no person designed by rank or special appointment to defend it; and if there had, he should prove, that the place, if attacked, must have fallen into the hands of the enemy.

Before he sat down, he thought it necessary in order to rescue the honour of a brave, able, and distinguished officer from that stain which he conceived had been cast on both, by the noble lord ostensibly acting at the head of the army, to take notice of an expression dropped by that His grace pointed out the cruelty of noble lord in a former debate. If the ex- taking away an officer's character by false pression was not used, the noble lord surmises and unfavourable conclusions; would doubtless thank him for offering by laying before the public only such facts his lordship an opportunity of contradict- as answered the purpose of the person who ing a report which had gone forth; and if stated them, and concealing those which it had been used, he had a right to presume he foresaw would make against him. It that the expression dropped in the inad- was very easy to state a general fact, that vertency of debate. The officer he al- sir David Lindsay requested to resign. laded to, was sir David Lindsay, who in He did so; but then under what circumApril 1779, was appointed to the com- stances? It bore a great appearance of mand at Plymouth. Sir David had some candour in the noble lord, to offer sir David time since done him the honour of a visit, another command; but then the offer was and asked him whether the noble lord at such, as sir David must, from the nature the head of the staff had said, that he of it, reject. Again, what was the cause (sir David) requested to resign the com- of his resignation became another quesmand at Plymouth; and that he had been tion: in the one instance, it was equally removed from that command merely upon convenient to the noble lord to say, that his own application to resign? In answer he had done every thing which depended to this question, his grace said, that he so upon him, and that if Plymouth was in a understood the noble lord. On which sir defenceless state, it was not his fault. David expressed great uneasiness, and Here was conditional blame thrown some recited all the particulars, fully satisfying where; and on whom was it so liable to him, that so far from the fact being such lie as the person invested, at the time, as the noble lord was supposed to have with the command? Whereas, upon enstated, the idea of his resigning the com- quiry, expressly the contrary happened to mand at Plymouth, had been first suggest-be the case. Such being the manner the ed to him by the noble lord himself; for affair struck him, so far as the particulars sir David assured him, that so far from related to the noble lord and sir David, he wishing to resign his command, he had of- was firmly persuaded that the noble lord fered to serve under whoever might be would rejoice he had it in his power to do appointed to the post he then occupied. justice to an able and gallant officer, It was true, he had refused a command. whose character might have suffered He had been offered that of the troops in through the inadvertency and ambiguity the north-western part of the kingdom, of his expressions. His grace then moved, at Whitehaven, but he declined the offer," That this House will, on the 2d of May and that for a very good reason, as it next, resolve itself into a committee of would have been extremely improper for the whole House, to enquire into the state him to quit a place which promised to be of defence of the counties of Devon and the immediate scene of active service, to Cornwall, at the time when the combined go to the extremity of the kingdom. His fleets of France and Spain appeared off grace likewise called to their lordships' re- this coast in August last; and particularcollection another expression which fell ly into the measures which had been taken from the noble lord in a former conversa-previous to that period, and whilst the [VOL. XXI.]

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enemy's fleet remained in the Channel, to | before the date of their commissions, been put the port and dock-yard of Plymouth enrolled soldiers, were put over the heads into a condition to resist the enemy, had of gentlemen who composed the great they at that time directed their force to- mass of the officers of the army, the field wards that port; and likewise, to inquire officers, captains of companies, and vetewhat persons were responsible for the se- ran lieutenants. In some instances, subal curity of objects of such vast importance tern officers, in others, new comers, who to this nation, and into the manner of such hardly knew the right end of a firelock, responsibility." were put over the heads of lieutenants, colonels and majors, of 30 and 35 years standing; and the whole class of captains, much the greater part of whom had been in service for at least 20 years; and nobly distinguished themselves both in the former and present war, in almost every quarter of the globe. His lordship repeated his hearty approbation of the motion. The state of Plymouth, last year, ought to rouse the attention of every Englishman, and excite his indignation. Such gross inattention, such obstinate and unaccounta ble negligence, in his opinion, called for condign punishment. It was criminal in the highest degree, and could have originated in nothing but treachery, or the most gross, dull, and flagrant incapacity. Such he predicted would continue to be the state of public affairs, so long as they continued to be administered by those, who at present held the reins of government; and more especially, so long as the noble earl was permitted to preside at the head of the Admiralty, who, on a former occasion, when the appearance of the combined fleets off Plymouth furnished matter for some observations from the side of the House on which he had the honour to sit, presumed to treat the matter with levity, and seemed to make no other impression on his lordship, than to recall to his mind the ludicrous allusion to the old couplet,

The Earl of Pembroke seconded the motion, confirmed every thing which his grace had adduced in support of it, and delivered his sentiments fully and distinctly relative to the bad conduct and government of the army in general; affirming, that the administration of that, as well as every other department civil and military, was equally weak in itself, injurious to the individuals of the profession, and destructive to the service. Indeed, it presented little more than daily instances of partiality, insolence, tyranny, baseness, and open or concealed malice. If any system was now visible, it was a system of undermining; of ruining the professional reputation of officers; of driving them from the service. It had lately been practised in many instances, which he should forbear to mention. As to the navy, the system he had been describing was well known to exist, and its pernicious effects were too fatally felt. Some of which were, that we had been deprived of the assistance of some of our most distinguished naval characters, among others, a Keppel and a Howe. It was not even the services of those gallant officers that constituted the sole loss; it was their high professional reputation, and the confidence which their characters inspired both the navy and the whole nation with; while, on the other hand, discontents and want of that confidence were visible on every side. Many attempts, it was true, had been made, and means tried to vilify those able seamen, and to traduce both their public and professional characters, but in vain. The people in general, and the navy in particular, earnestly wished for their return to the service. In the army, the same system of favouritism and oppression prevailed, though he could not say that the evil effects were so pernicious in their nature; yet, if followed up with the same steadiness, he made no doubt but the consequences might prove equally destructive. The great source of this evil arose from the new device of giving temporary rank. By this scheme, inferior officers, and even person who had never seen service, or

"The king of France with forty thousand men, Went up the hill, and so came down again." His lordship concluded, with asking what serious good could be expected from a man, who could treat a fact of so alarming a nature, and which had thrown the whole kingdom into a panic, in so light and improper a manner?

Lord Amherst rose to explain the words said to have fallen from him upon a former occasion relative to the resignation of sir D. Lindsay. He believed what he said was, that sir David desired to resign, and that his resignation was accepted.

Lord Stormont said, if he had considered the question merely as a military one, he should have felt his own inability to speak to it, especially after it had been supported

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