and general apprehensions, but not a syllable which stamped upon them the least shadow of weight or authority. If there was no proof of the affirmative, how did the negative given to the learned gentleman's motion stand supported? Upon every fair ground of probability.-He would, in the first instance, speak from his own knowledge, that he knew nothing which would prevent the present session from sitting a reasonable time. There was a great deal of business before the House. There was in particular the Tax Bills; there were besides other mea ures before the House, which he presumed, notwithstanding the hon. gentleman's declared resolution of absenting himself from that House, would undergo a considerable deal of discussion, and of course of time, before they could be properly disposed of. In his opinion, therefore, instead of any fair cause of suspecting, that it was the intention of the King's confidential servants, to put an immature period to the present session, every probability lay the other way: first, that there was business which must be finished before the House rose; secondly, that that business would take up more time than could in any sense prevent the full and sober discussion of any questions relative to the petitions on the table, or other business, in which the interest of the public might be concerned.-Another part of the hon. gentleman's speech seemed to him to be founded upon a very extraordinary conclusion indeed. It supposed, that the negative given to the hon. gentleman's motion amounted substantially to a negative to the whole of the prayers of the petitions; that their fate was thereby decided, and that the House had determined to deny the petitioners every species of relief. This, to him, appeared a very extravagant mode of arguing, and totally irreconcileable to common sense, and the knowledge and experience of the House. He would in the first place observe, that no one measure whatever had been either negatived, or by inference disposed of, by the vote of that night. The motion stated, recommended no specific measure relative to the subject matter contained in the petitions. It only expressed a desire that his Majesty would not dissolve or prorogue parliament, till the petitioners had redress; but remained totally silent as to the mode of redress; and had, with seeming design, declined to state any effective measure whatever. But supposing, what was not the case, that [2 M]

ciety of gentlemen; that, he presumed, was one of the fixed principles of order in that House, and in every other popular assembly. The hon. gentleman happened to be in a minority one night, and in a majority on another. The hon. gentleman seemed to be displeased; he was so used to vote in a minority, that he seemed quite offended that he was enabled to vote at any time in a majority, if that majority was not always secured to him. This was rather unreasonable. He dared to say that he was as much accustomed to vote in a majority as the hon. gentleman; yet, on the particular night alluded to he was obliged to submit. It was his fortune to be left on that night in a very considerable minority; yet he did not think himself justified in rising immediately, and, in the anguish of defeat and disappointment, accusing those who had frequently before voted with him, with baseness, treachery, versatility, and other improper motives. He would therefore recommend to the hon. gentleman not to be so rash or hasty, but rather to give him credit for one part of his conduct, which he was persuaded would be worthy of the hon. gentleman's imitation; not to despair, but rather hope, that upon some future day he might again vote in a majority. The hon. gentleman, with his usual ability and fertile imagination, drew conclusions which the vote of that night by no means warranted. The hon. gentleman presumed, that because the House refused to address his Majesty not to prorogue parliament, or dissolve it, but to prolong its duration to an indefinite period, and for no definite purpose, at least expressed in the motion, that consequently the petitioners were to have no redress. In his apprehension, the ground of the motion had no other support but a suspicion, that either one or the other of those measures were then actually in contemplation, and were meant, at an improper time, and in an improper manner, to be carried into execution. Bare suspicion, or surmise, was no ground for proposing any measure in that House. It should be a probable surmise, a probable suspicion, that ought to operate upon the proceedings or resolutions of that House. Was any thing like it either suggested in the motion itself, or in argument, that any sudden or premature prorogation or dissolution of parliament was, about to take place? He did not recollect that any such suggestion was urged. He heard a great deal of loose assertion, of predicted fears [VOL. XXI.]

some measure had been proposed, and had been disapproved of; or supposing, what no man could venture to say, that whatever the learned gentleman, or any other hon. member might move in the committee on Monday next; would be negatived; would it follow from thence, by negativing the other, as one had been already negatived, that such an event would amount to a negative of the prayers of the several petitions? He could by no means think so. The resolutions of the 6th of April, how much soever he disapproved of them, still remained on the Journals, as the sense of that House; other measures might be proposed on them; but even if there should not, there were several Bills before the House. There was the Bill for constituting a commission of accounts; there was a Bill, brought in by an hon. gentleman, part of which he highly approved; there were two or three other Bills, brought in by hon. gentlemen, all formed upon the petitions. Such being the case, he must say, that the hon. gentleman was not warranted in affirming, because every thing which he or his friends might think proper to propose, was not agreed to, that therefore nothing was meant to be done, but that the prayers of the petitions were to be defeated in the gross. He could hardly suspect the hon. gentleman's abilities, he must therefore impute it to his total misapprehension, or some other cause, for it appeared to him a very absurd species of reasoning, that because every proposition, made in consequence of the petitions, was not adopted, it was therefore determined to reject all. If the hon. gentleman meant to establish that conclusion, he trusted he would find himself mistaken; if for no other reason but for this, that it would at once put an end to all free deliberation and inquiry, by precluding men from exercising their own judgment, and thereby binding them to the individual opinions of every person, who happened to agree with them in some fundamental point, such as, that the influence of the crown had increased, and ought to be diminished, &c. On the whole, his lordship hoped that the public would perceive the difference between the conclusion drawn by the hon. gentleman and the question, as it really presented itself to the impartial observer; and he trusted in that light, as the refusing to consent to any specific measure was far from importing a general negative to the petitions, so the motion which had been

now disposed of, not being founded either in fact or probability, was by no means intitled to the approbation of that House.

Mr. Dunning said, his hon. friend had been misinformed, when he supposed that he had any particular measure to propose on Monday next. He assured the hon. gentleman, and the rest of his friends in that House, that he had not. His labours and assiduities were already determined. When he moved that the committee might be adjourned, and kept open till Monday, his intention in so doing was only to give other gentlemen an opportunity of conveying their sentiments through that medium to the House. He had doubted for some days past, but he despaired, since the vote which had now passed, of being able to render any service to his country. The noble lord in the blue ribbon had talked of the propositions of individuals, and of the House not being bound by them. He confessed himself a stranger to the species of property alluded to by the noble lord. He knew of no property any man had in any motion from the instant he delivered it out of his hand. It was not henceforward this or that man's proposition; it was the proposition of the House, which in its own judgment it was at liberty to adopt or reject; in either event it contained the sense of the House, and could be no longer esteemed, or be treated as the sentiments of any particular person. In that sense, and that sense only, he had submitted some propositions to the House, and was quite indifferent as to their fate; if they were fit to be adopted he presumed they would be so adopted; if to be rejected, they would be so rejected: in either and every event the mover could have no interest in the rejection or adoption, but what if he enjoyed at all he must enjoy in common with others.

Mr. Fox rose to explain what he meant respecting the words base, scandalous, and disgraceful, respecting the vote given by those on the 6th of April who divided against the motion made that night by his learned friend. He said, when he made use of those epithets, he applied them in this, and this way only. He did not mean to say that they had acted disgracefully, shamefully, &c. that night; he meant to convey this idea, that the gentlemen who voted on the 6th of April, that the influence of the crown had increased, and ought to be diminished, and that it was the duty of that House to redress the grievances complained of in the petitions, were bound and

stood publicly pledged to perform one or the other of these two things; to support such measures as might be suggested in consequence of those resolutions; or if they appeared to be such as they could not conscientiously vote in support of, that then they were bound to propose some other resolutions or measures, conformably to the ideas they entertained when they gave the vote of the 6th of April. If they refused to do that, or neglected in time to do it, so as that the measure proposed might at the late period of the session have a fair prospect of passing into a law before any prorogation or dissolution of parliament should take place; in such a possible event he was prepared to re-assert and repeat, that a conduct of that kind amounted to a desertion and abandonment of their declared principles, of their solemn promises plighted in that House to their constituents, and the people at large; and in that light were scandalous, base, treacherous, shameful, and disgraceful.

The House then adjourned.

Lord George Gordon presents a Petition from Ayrshire against the Growth of Popery.] April 27. Lord George Gordon said he had a petition from Ayrshire to present to the House. Before however he presented it, he thought it necessary to say some few matters, worthy their attention. His lordship went into a series of observations on what had fallen from lord Nugent and Mr. Adam in the course of Monday's debate, arraigning the former of having spoken merely of the conduct of Charles 1, in civil matters, and applauding the latter for blaming that weak prince for his religious as well as his civil conduct, declaring that it was owing to his religious principles chiefly, that all his misfortunes were ascribable, and that the family of the Stuarts, the rightful heirs to the throne of England, were deprived of their inheritance, and both king William and the present family called in to reign over a people, whose laudable aversion to popery made them detest and abhor all princes affected to that intolerant religion. In his usual strange and very singular way of speaking, his lordship brought in a number of strange allusions to recent matters, tying and connecting what had occurred many years since, with what occurred lately, in a most extraordinary manner. Talking of James 2, he said that prince had for a long time concealed his popish inclinations, but at length he became so barefaced,

that he received Ferdinando Dada as the pope's nuncio; there were good and bad lords then, he said, as well as now, for the duke of Somerset refused to introduce the nuncio, knowing that he would have been guilty of treason had he done so, and he lost his place for his refusal; but the duke of Grafton did the job. He said he should not wonder if the religious grievances of the people were not redressed, to see popery get to as great a height in this country now, as it did in any popish reign; nor should he be surprised if another Ferdinando Dada was to enter that House in pontificalibus, and take his seat there. He took occasion to animadvert on the corruption in the power of the Treasurybench; and quoted lord Chatham's authority, to prove that there were greater means of buying men's votes than with either the profits of official emolument, pensions, or places, and that was by titles. The earl had said, "get but the thoughts of a title into a man's head, and he'll do any thing to obtain it." He told the Speaker, he had heard a noble lord wanted to buy him with a title. He advised him by no means to accept of it. He bid him remember that lord Chatham was sunk by a title, and lost his popularity in consequence of his accepting one. Should he (the Speaker) be weak enough to accept a title, his popularity would be irrecoverably gone; the yeomanry would despise him: he advised him, therefore, to preserve his present dignity. Don't, said he, Mr. Speaker, be cozened by a title. Why, Sir, the king has it not in his power to ennoble you. Lord Onslow has got a title, and would you accept of one? No, Sir, I hope you are above it; I hope you'll continue serving your country, in making excellent speeches for the people's rights, as you did from the Treasurybench a few weeks ago. I look upon you, Sir, and the member for Bristol, and the member for Malmsbury, and my worthy friend the member for Calne, as four of the first men in the kingdom, in point of abilities. It is in this House only, that such men can best serve their country; therefore, Sir, I advise you to stay where you are. His lordship was, in the course of his speech, repeatedly called to order by different members, and desired by the Speaker, at the instance of the House, to confine himself to the subject matter of the petition. His lordship took the advice very patiently, but each time that he was called to order, rose again, and pursued