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of house-keepers to the royal palaces, and indelicate to reform those parts of the among others one from Haverford-west, expenditure of the civil list which related stating that John Manners, esq. was house to his Majesty's household, by act of parkeeper at Whitehall. He again referred liament; and as the House had, in a former to the Red-book, for before, he had ima- determination, avoided entering upon them, gined it to be an error, and that it had he thought it probable that they would either meant lady John Manners, or Joan Adhere to the same rule, in their determiManners; however, after brushing aside nation respecting the great wardrobe, now the crowd of hoop-petticoats which almost under their consideration, as falling within concealed him, he espied John Manners, that description. That he hoped the comesq. He said, he immediately went to mittee would pay so much credit to the Whitehall, which he found to be one of part he had taken in public affairs, and to the ideal palaces, without habitations for his conduct in life, as to acquit him of any retinue, or capability of reception of re- interested views respecting that office, sidents. All he saw there was several potwithstanding he was a member of it; paintings of nudities in the Banquetting he assured the committee, that on every House, by Peter Paul Rubens, and a occasion, where his own interest had stood painter busy about them, who, according in competition with that of the public, he to the modern fashion, was employed in had always preferred the latter. That correcting and improving the works of with the assistance of the master of the that great master. He saw, however, no wardrobe, he had reformed such abuses in house-keeper, nor any occasion for one, the office, as fell under his inspection, as though 5001. a year and better, was paid comptroller, and had saved his Majesty to John Manners, esq. for holding that 9001. per annum.

That he did not wish office. He mentioned this, to shew at to have that office freed from inspection once that the office of house-keeper to and regulation ; on the contrary, he knew any of the royal palaces, was, generally there were sinecure places, and other things speaking, a mere sinecure, which, however, in it, which wanted' reformation; but he as long as it was bestowed on ladies of did not think it proper to have them regucondition, should receive no shock or lated by act of parliament; rather wishing violence from his hands. The rest of the his Majesty would be pleased to make the clause went to the abolition of the offices necessary reformations in all offices within of the great wardrobe, &c. which un- his household, by his own authority; and doubtedly were so far useless, that though that he thought it might be proper for the they cost a great deal of money, the com- House to address his Majesty for that mittee must see the whole duty of them purpose, as it would, by the saving, furnish might be done at considerably less expence him with the means, not only of relieving by other persons.

many particular distressed objects, which Lord John Cavendish said, that the of his goodness and humanity would lead fice of the great wardrobe was of modern him to, but also of giving relief and supinstitution, and that it had not been insti- port to his subjects in general, when optuted under an idea, that it was to remain pressed by heavy taxes. That he did not a permanent office.

think himself of consequence enough to Mr. Gilbert said, that when he suggested make a motion of that sort, but it coin. to the House, two years ago, the plan of cided so much with his general sentiments economy and regulations upon which the and wishes, that if any other gentleman present Bill was founded, he hoped his would do it, he should have his hearty Majesty's ministers would have advised concurrence. him to have made the necessary inquiries, Earl Nugent objected to the clause, as and to have directed such retrenchments tending very unjustifiably to interfere in his expences, as might have enabled with his Majesty's domestic regulations. him to have given some considerable sums He said, if the hon. gentleman, when he in ease of his subjects under their present saw the painter at work in the Banqueting burdens; if that had been done, instead House, at Whitehall, on the paintings of of the petitions which had been presented Rubens, had asked that painter who he to this House, his Majesty would most was, he did not at all doubt, but the man probably have had the satisfaction of re- would have told him he was a reformer, ceiving addresses of thanks from his people. and that he was attempting to reform and That as he had upon a former occasion alter those pictures which had been the intimated his opinion, that it would be original work of a greater master, and

had been admired for a long series of be clothed like the lillies of the field: years. Just as the painter's attempts to our Solomon, with all his heart, might correct the pictures of Rubens had outvie the lillies of the field; he had not struck the hon. gentleman, did the hon. the smallest objection. He repeated it, gentleman's Bill strike him; it was an at- it was the necessity of the times, and tempt to reform, alter, and correct the not his will, that made him a reformer. constitution; he cautioned the hon. gen- He could not, however, but wonder a tleman, therefore, how he proceeded ; little at the noble lord's comparison of his the constitution was the work of the old Bill, and the objects of it, to a modern school, the work of those masters, whose painter's reforming the pictures of Ruuniversal excellence and skill had been bens; he should have thought the simile established by the sanction and approba of the old tattered worsted stockings, tion of admiring ages; let the hon. gen. which had been used on a preceding day, tleman consider, that the picture, how would have suited better, because his ever mellowed by the hand of time, had Bill was calculated not to alter the constinot lost its original beauty, and that the tution, but to pick out the old worsted, to rude hand of a modern reformer might, draw the rents together, and mend the under the notion of correcting and improv- holes. Such an office as that he had uning, spoil the piece altogether.

dertaken was far from being new. Ther Mr. Burke, in reply, said, the noble was in the houshold itself an office like it, lord's argument was an argument ad vere- and that was called the office of arras cundiam, which he would readily answer. mender, whose duty it was to take care That which made the painter be employed of the tapestry hangings, the works of to re-touch the almost invisible strokes of old masters, and which had been admired Rubens, made him turn reformer—the for a series of years, but which (from the necessity of the times. That it was con- decay and rottenness occasioned in them trary to his genius, his temper, and his by the teeth of devouring time, and from wish, contrary to every inclination of his the holes made in them by the teeth of mind, to attempt the invidious task he had rats, and other obnoxious animals, who then in hand; he did assure the noble lord, sheltered themselves behind them, nibhowever, that nothing but dire necessity bling them away, and continually preying had forced him upon it. He had long la- upon them), were in danger of falling to mented the great and pressing occasion pieces, and occasionally required the asfor some person to attempt a reformation sistance of the arras mender, to patch in many of the great branches of the pub- them up, and make them hold together. lic expenditure. He had waited almost Having said this, he took up his minutes to the last moment, in hopes that some of the enumeration of the duties of the other person, whose superior talents, whose great wardrobe, stated by Mr. Gilbert, turn of mind, and whose zeal, would bet- and in a vein of the richest ridicule, aniter qualify him for the office of reforming madverted on each, keeping the commitwhat was wrong; finding that nobody tee in a roar almost the whole time he would do it, and the necessity of its being was treating of them. The first articles, done pressing more and more, he had at he observed, were coronations and great last ventured, unwillingly, upon a task funerals, two articles, which, he hoped which he disliked as much as any man would give no occasion for the employliving. He did assure the noble lord ment of the great wardrobe for many, he would much rather have proposed many years to come. His Majesty, he to build his Majesty splendid palaces, thanked God, had been blest with a vigoto buy him the most valuable pictures, rous and healthful constitution; in all and to do every thing which could contri- probability, therefore, no gentleman prebute to hold him up in all the possible sent would live to see a coronation. The splendour and magnificence of royalty, hon. gentleman had talked a great deal, than to have taken upon him an office and very pathetically, on the subject of disagreeable in itself

, and sure to create great funerals ; perhaps he foresaw that him enemies, namely, that of abolishing the clause would pass the committee, and places in the houshold, with a view, by as that would naturally effect the death of making a trifling saving for the public, the great wardrobe, the hon. gentleman to assist somewhat towards the great might have in view its funeral procession, expences they laboured uuder. Solo in which lord Pelham, and the hon. genmon, with all his glory, was said not to tleman, would necessarily walk as chief mourners, a sight certainly very melan- seats, it was impossible for him by the choly to behold, but particularly affecting feel to ascertain whether they were done to the hon. gentleman, and those other by contract, or how, but there need, he officers who made up the solemn shew. thought, be no great expence lavished on Great funerals in general, Mr. Burke them; matted rushes would inspire as pasaid, were great follies; the worst waste of triotic sentiments to the persons who sat money that could be adopted. Now and upon them, as soft cushions. He prethen, indeed, when the nation meant to sumed, that neither lord Pelham, nor the do honour to a deserving character, to hon. gentleman, troubled their heads about whose efforts, while living, it stood highly them; that if they did any thing that conindebted, they were proper, justifiable, cerned furnishing either House of Parliaand even necessary. He had seen one ment it was by stuffing the woolsacks, such funeral [of the earl of Chatham] and other metaphorical seats of the other and, there indeed, he must do the great House. Having for a considerable time wardrobe the justice to say, that they had excited laughter by his wit, Mr. Burke rigidly adhered to that virtue, which it returned to a serious consideration of the was one object of his Bill to recommend clause, pointing out the great wardrobe, and enforce, the virtue of economy! and other offices, as unnecessary, and So æconomical, and so saving were the therefore as they cost a considerable sum, great wardrobe on that occasion, that the he said, he thought they might well be cloaks were short, scanty, and thread- spared, and ought to be abolished. bare, and no scarfs, nor hardly any thing Mr. Medley rose to declare, that he necessary to be had. Perhaps, indeed, it wished for economy as much as any genwas intended as a stroke of policy in the tleman present, but he never would congreat wardrobe, who, knowing that the sent to touch any part of the King's estaminority would be the chief attendants blishment. His Majesty had given up his on that funeral, and remembered that it hereditary estates in exchange for that 'was the minority who made so much noise civil establishment; the matter, therefore, about economy in parliament, were de exclusive of its having turned out exceed. termined to treat them in their own way, ingly advantageous to the public, was a and to shew that one public office at least matter of bargain between parliament and attended with due deference to their doc- the crown, and being once made, that trines, and carried their practice of eco- House had no right whatever to interfere nomy even beyond the bounds of de- with it, or break it; for which reason, as cency.

long as he sat in that House, he never The next article of Mr. Gilbert's list, would consent to alter or touch a single which he took notice of, was the clothing hair of it. When he said this, he begged of the state trumpeters; by these, he not to be supposed to speak from any said, he presumed the writers for govern- sinister or interested view. He was as ment were meant, who having so far suc- independent a man as any gentleman preceeded in their efforts as to render mi- sent: he did assure the House he never nistry universally unpopular and detesta-, would either ask or accept of any favour ble, certainly ought to be well taken care from the crown, and if he was then at his of and properly clothed. He unuer- Majesty's feet, he would say the same. stood, however, that the noble lord in the Mr. Hopkins spoke in support of the blue ribbon, had, in that business, shewn clause, declaring that the offices meant to some regard to the public, and by way of be abolished by it, cost a great deal of saving expence, had contracted to pay money, and answered no good purpose. the work these writers undertook, by the Sir Richard Sutton condemned the gross. After going through several other clause in very strong terms, and reproarticles, he said ; “ so much for the work bated the idea of furnishing the royal done for the crown, now let us see what palaces with furniture, pictures, &c. by is done for the people.” Why, the great contract, as a mode of treating the prince wardrobe furnishes the House of Com- equally degrading to him, and mean and mons, and the House of Lords. The pitiful in that House to attempt to enact proper constitutional furniture of the for- by act of parliament. He mentioned the mer, he said, were living figures, such, king of Prussia's wardrobe, as described however, as were sometimes rather costly, by Dr. Moore in his late publication, in and by the price of the purchase not very proof of the wretched manner a king economically bought. With regard to the clothed by contract would appear.

Mr. Burke observed'that the hon. bart. I he declared, had no connection with the had been speaking to a wrong clause, for great wardrobe. It was an office held by that there was not one word about con- a very good friend and near relation of his tracts in the clause then before the com-(the hon. James Brudenell) and an office mittee. Mr. Burke said, he had been used | of a very different nature, he believed, to hear of the king of Prussia as a great from what the hon. gentleman imagined. soldier, a great legislator, and though with The master of the robes was always conmany strong foibles as a man, was one of sidered as first groom of the bed-chamber, the greatest monarchs of the present cen- and had the entrees the same as the others; tury. His æconomy was worth our copving. as the hon. gentleman, therefore, bad de.

Sir R. Sutton rose again, and said the clared he did not wish to meddle with them, honourable gentleman was mistaken, for he presumed lie would not wish, when he if he looked to page 7 of the Bill, he would knew what he then told him, to abolish the there see a clause referring to the clause office of master of the robes. now before the committee, by which it was Sir Horace Mann said, he had already enacted, that all furniture and other declared his disapprobation of violent mea. moveables, to be purchased for the use of sures, and for that reason had expressed his his Majesty's household, were to be con-objection to committees of association. tracted for by the Lord Chamberlain; a He lamented the absence of Mr. Pitt, clause which every gentleman must see whose bad state of health he described as the absurdity of, because in some cases it the cause, and spoke of his disinterested was impracticable, particularly in the pur-zeal for the public welfare, and his great chase of pictures.

abilities, in terms of the warmest panegyric. Mr. Burke told the hon. baronet that He declared, the extract from the resoluhe had never designed to abridge his Ma- tions of the meeting held at Cambridge, jesty either in furniture, pictures, &c. but on the 10th instant, which Mr. Pitt had that if his Bill had passed altogether as he read to the House a few days ago, had brought it in, his Majesty might have had given him the highest satisfaction, inasjust whatever he chose, only he would much as they exactly coincided with his have been certain of being better served. own sentiments. He begged the House, With regard to pictures, Mr. Burke said, however, to attend to the grounds upon he had seen some in his Majesty's palaces, which the Cambridge resolutions were which he should have imagined had been founded—a flattering expectation of the bought by contract, and those very badly further interference of the House of Combought, they were such miserable worthless mons, with regard to the grievances compieces. He begged the hon. baronet, plained of by the petitions of the people, however, to recollect, that finding gentle and a confidence that what they should do men in general were averse to the King's in conformity to their solemn resolutions of being served by contract, he had himself the 6th of April, would give effectual relief. declared, he should drop all that part of He bid the House, therefore, consider, the Bill, and, where it had occurred, as in that they must do something that would page 4, respecting the Lord Steward, he fall in with the expectations of the people, had passed over the clause altogether. and not abuse their confidence. The ob. He ascribed the hon. baronet's talking of jects of the clause under consideration, he a clause two pages off instead of that under thought were very important, and as they consideration, to his consciousness that tended towards ceconomy, coincided with there was no ground for objection in that the petitions of the people; but, perhaps, clause which was really before the com- it would be more respectful to the crown mittee.

to do the business by address, rather than Lord North rose to speak to the clause, by act of parliament. He wished his hon. which he objected to generally, declaring friend had been present to take the lead in his disinclination to tear the King's house such a business; he would gladly have hold to pieces by act of parliament, and followed him upon it. He declared, that his determination to oppose every such it appeared to him a very proper step, and attempt. His lordship said, there were if no other person would do it, he said, offices jumbled together in the clause, he would move an address to the crown, which had no sort of analogy whatever, requesting that those things might be done nor could he conceive on what ground the which were the objects of the Bill, prohon. gentleman liad put them into the same vided he found that such a measure should clause. The office of master of the robes, prove agreeable to the House. (VOL. XXI.]


General Conway said the ground of ar- that the minister had not risen and given gument had changed so much since the the House assurance, that if the address Bill was last under consideration, that he which had been mentioned, was proposed, scarcely knew in what manner to treat it should not be objected to and defeated the subject. It was highly necessary that by the noble lord and his friends. something should be done in compliance Mr. Adair urged the absolute necessity with the petitions of the people; the peo- of complying with the prayers of the peple had particularly recommended æco- titions. In order to prove that the comnomy, and it was undoubtedly highly ne- mittee were warranted to interfere, he cessary. We were now confessedly carry- moved to have the resolution proposed by ing on a war of economy with our foes, Mr. Pitt on the 6th of April, and agreed a war of finance, which must unavoidably to by the committee, and afterwards conterminate in the ruin of them or us. The firmed by the House, read. It was read advisers of his Majesty, ought, therefore, accordingly at the table. to adopt every measure that tended to- Lord North then rose, and after apolowards æconomy, and they could not do gizing for sitting silent so long, said, that better than look to France, and see what undoubtedly an address to the throne was had been the conduct of that court. From both a parliamentary and constitutional the moment Lewis 16 came to the throne, measure; that every thing which came reformation and economy had been the from that House would always be regarded great objects of their attention. The ge- with the utmost attention and respect, by neral here pulled some translations of those about the person of his Majesty ; French edicts from his pocket, and read that he owed a resolution of that House an extract from the very first published the greatest deference; he owed it also by the present French king, immediately his obedience, not, indeed, as much as he on his accession to the throne in 1774. owed to an act of parliament, but as much The extract was couched in very affec- as a resolution of one House of Parlament tionate terms of address to the subjects of was entitled to. An address from that France, informing them that the preceding House, was the voice of the people of reign had abounded in liberalities and England, which was at all times entitled profusenesses, to an excess extremely de- to the utmost deference. The people of trimental to the interest of the kingdom, England, when they spoke through their and that the king was determined to re- representatives, adopted that mode of form them as much as possible, and to speaking to the throne, by which alone begin his reign with abridging his own ex- the people of England could be heard or pences, the better to get the finances of could speak. Gentlemen had said a great his kingdom into good order. The con- deal about æconomy, and the king of sequences of steadily adhering to this re. Prussia had been mentioned. The sovesolution, the general described as exceed- reign, whom he had the honour to serve, ingly beneficial to France; the end, he in his desires to have æconomy strictly said, was so fully answered, that she had attended to at all times, and to comply yet imposed no taxes on the subject, and with the wishes of his people, would give had this year, for the first time, made a way to no sovereign on the face of the loan, and that a very small one, whereas globe. His Majesty was always eager to we had added sixty million to our na- please the people, and to do every thing in tional debt already. He estimated the his power that could possibly contribute savings made by the king of France in to their happiness and welfare. his household only, at near a million an- General Conway rose in great heat, nually.

and charged the noble lord with having Mr. Rouscommended the clause, pointed perverted his words, and applied what out the saving it would occasion, and said he had said relative to the advisers of the it came directly under the prayer of the crown, to the person of the sovereign, a petitions, reminding the committee that matter exceedingly improper and directly the House had pledged themselves by contrary to order. their resolutions of the 6th of April, to Lord North said, the hon. gentleman do something effectually to diminish the had no right to stop him in so much heat; influence of the crown, and advised the that he was a servant of the crown, as well agreeing to the present clause as one step as the hon. gentleman, and as faithful a towards discharging that promise. servant. He contended, he had not been

Mr. Powys expressed his astonishment disorderly; he had a right to say, the so

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