others from receiving education. He had been educated as a Protestant of the church of England by a dissenter; he read the Bible there morning, noon, and night, and was the happier and better man for such reading: he had afterwards turned his attention to the reading of all the theological publications, on all sides, that, were written with such wonderful ability in the last and present century; and at last thought such studies tended to confound and bewilder, and he dropped them, embracing and holding fast the church of England. He went into a large field of reasoning on toleration; vindicated the Papists from the charges brought against them; and decried the baseness of Payne, the constable, who, he said, had gone about, trying to find out matter to incarcerate for life, men against whom no complaint was made for any offence, other than saying their prayers in a language which he did not understand, but they did. He had imprisoned Mr. Malony, an honest and inoffensive man, but the humanity of the crown had released him he had attempted to imprison Mr. Talbot, brother to the earl of Shrewsbury, but had failed, very happily, in proof. He stated, in a very long speech, the means taken to bring about all the mischief; he said it had happened by the zeal of wicked and abandoned men, who had gone about industriously misleading poor, ignorant, and deluded people: and concluded, by mov : a serious review of the late Act in favour of the Papists, and to relieve the minds of those particularly who are under scruples respecting the oath of supremacy.-Although, Sir, through the baneful influence of the crown, the former petitions have been spurned at and trampled upon, 1 yet hope the House will comply with the prayer of these petitions without delay, lest not only the multitude lately at your doors, but the people at large, should suspect that under the specious mask of moderation and tenderness for the Papists, we have a design to sacrifice the valuable inheritance purchased with the blood of our ancestors, and the security of the Protestant religion, to the shrine of Popery. These are my sentiments, which are founded upon those most unequivocal of all arguments, observation and experience. Mr. Burke reprobated the alderman's doctrines, and reflected upon him for his ignorance and want of erudition: he stated, that the ablest arguments that ever were used, had that day fallen from the ablest men, and that they were opposed by ignorance, falshood, and fanaticism. He was called to order by sir James Lowther, who said he had reflected in an unbecoming manner on the worthy alderman, and was deviating in an improper manner from the question. After some time Mr. Burke proceeded, and said, that the petitions had arisen from bigotry and fanaticism; that the church of England was struck at, and the crown itself, and he would defending a preface to the first motion, "That both from the attempts and malevolence of such men. He went into a full account of the late riots; expatiated on the inhumanity of the mob; said that Mr. Langdale, with twelve children, had suffered to the amount of 50,000%.—he had laid in a great stock against the commencement of new duties-he had since been advised to go to Bath to relieve his mind-at his first arrival there, he was treated with the sight of the chapel at that place in flames-he was obliged to return to the Devizes. The inhumanity of fanatics was such, that after the destruction of the school near the city, a petition had been presented, desiring the poor man, who owned it, might not have a lease of the land again to build another. He attacked the petitioners, and he read the names of several taken from thence with a mark-he threw others into ridicule, and he quoted, in a facetious manner, the names of several women-not being able to read and write themselves, these monsters were desirous of preventing much industry had been used to misrepresent the intentions of parliament, &c." As soon as he had done, the question was called for, many members growing impatient at the length of the debate. Sir Joseph Mawbey rose, and many attempting to prevent his speaking, he declared, that on a business of such importance he would not be prevented from declaring his sentiments; he knew how little he was qualified to entertain or instruct them; he was never long, and he would not be stopped by the illiberal conduct of any man; he claimed that right as much for his constituents as himself; he had a right to be treated as a gentleman: such as disliked staying longer in the House might depart; but he assured them they might as well avoid noise, for they would sooner get away by it. The House being reduced to order, sir Joseph then said, that when the noble lord opened his propositions, he did it in so cool and dispassionate a manner as to afford him great satisfaction: he heard him always with pleasure, though he was not always convinced by his arguments. He had hoped the subsequent part of the debate would have been conducted with equal temper and moderation; instead of which, the hon. gentleman who spoke last, had, with a degree of passion and asperity very unbecoming himself, and very undeservedly, attacked the character of a most respectable magistrate who spoke before him, in terms not warranted by any provocation, and indefensible altogether. He had attacked the hon. magistrate on the preceding night with similar heat, equal impropriety, and equal violence; nay, the same magistrate, on the preceding night, had also been attacked with as much violence, if not with equal passion, by a brother alderman (Wilkes) in a manner unsupported by facts, and in a way that if it were true, should have been used by any other man in the House rather than that alderman; because the worthy magistrate, in times of distress and difficulty, had supported that alderman, and he thought personal and friendly obligations should restrain him from undeserved abuse. Notwithstanding these attacks, he had reason to believe the worthy alderman was as honest and as worthy a character as any man in the House, and, he had always understood, was so considered by those that knew him. The heat and warmth that had shewn itself in this business at different times, by a noble lord (George Gordon) now in an unfortunate and unhappy situation (with whom he had no acquaintance), the hon. gentleman who spoke last, and the alderman, who he did not then see in his place (Wilkes) had made many doubt who had most zeal, fire, or insanity: sure it was improperly brought forward on such occasions. With respect to himself, he had no connection with the Protestant Association, nor had conversed with any of them till that day on this business. He had seen in the petition the names of many worthy and respectable men, enemies to riot and friends of order. Some of his constituents had that day applied to him in the lobby, and had stated their desire of offering evidence to the House in support of the petitions; he was no bigot, and detested equally persecution, and the late horrid excesses of men who, he believed, were not connected with the Protestant Association, but friends to plunder only. He had signed no petition, nor had he ever shewn in the course of his life, a desire to persecute gentlemen of the Roman Catholic religion; on the contrary, he had lived in friendship with. some gentlemen of that persuasion, for whom he had great regard, and he believed with one priest, the late worthy Mr. Edward Southcote, his neighbour in the country; and when Mr. Payne, the constable, was said to be travelling about to prosecute the ministers employed in private chapels, he had from friendship desired Mr. Southcote would be studious to avoid any thing in his conduct that might awaken jealousy, as it would grieve him to be under the necessity of proceeding against him, which, as a magistrate, he must do if information should come before him. None of them in his neighbourhood were double taxed. But after saying this, he confessed he thought the House should be guarded in their conduct respecting Popery; it was a religion, he believed, intolerant in itself, and, if uppermost, would persecute others.. They ought not to be permitted to educate Protestant children; they acknowledged a foreign jurisdiction in spirituals, which might be hurtful and dangerous. The noble lord who opened the propositions, had complained that the pulpit had been employed by some men, forgetting their Christian character, to instigate the people; he did not know what the noble lord alluded to; but if he meant the preaching against the errors of Popery, he thought that practice not culpable. Archbishop Tillotson, and every divine of the last and present age, had so preached, and he did not know a clergyman of the church of England, he believed, from whom he had not heard at some time or other similar discourses.— The noble lord in the blue ribbon had said he was against the repeal on the score of policy: if it was to rest on that argument it ought certainly to be repealed. Popery was in general believed more suited to despotism than any other religion; and notwithstanding what an hon. gentleman (Mr. Fox) had said, in one of the best and most eloquent speeches he had ever heard, though in the case of Switzerland there might be a single exception to the contrary, if we looked round the world in general, we should see Popery and tyranny hand in hand together. In a civil view, therefore, any great increase of Popery must be dangerous.-A train of circumstances had led the people to believe their religion was in danger. Papists, by the capitulation of Quebec, were to be suffered the free exercise of their religion; but he had heard, our court had not only permitted a Roman Catholic to exercise his functions there, 14 or 15 years ago, but had actually given him a salary. Popery was not only tolerated, but established, by the execrable Quebec Bill, afterwards; a Bill founded in despotism and tyranny, and which, in the last parliament, he had always opposed. These, and other circumstances, had led the people to think it was meant to encourage it by little and little, till it should acquire a strength that might be dangerous. If it was true, what the noble lord had said, that Popery was decreased since the Revolution, and even within the last 20 years, why would not the noble lord permit a still further decrease? Why not let it quietly expire in this country, unless political reasons, in his judgment, made it proper to spread and extend it? He was therefore clearly for a repeal of part of the late Act; and he objected, on account of the want of proof, to Mr. Burke's Amendment. Mr. Sawbridge vindicated Mr. Alderman Bull's character; expressed himself an enemy to every kind of persecution, civil and religious; thought the Papists were at rest before, and this Act would tend to encourage persecution; and was totally against the prefatory Amendment proposed by Mr. Burke. General Conway said, that the other day he was afraid persecution would be encouraged, and the remaining penal laws would be enforced against Papists: he had now altered his opinion, and would vote for the resolutions; but hoped they might be hindered from seducing youth. Mr. Martin spoke a few words professing his attachment to universal toleration, and said he was against a repeal of the Act. The Resolutions were then read, and agreed to as follows: "1. That it is the opinion of this committee, that the effect and operation of the Act passed in the 18th of his present Majesty, intituled, An Act for relieving his Majesty's sub'jects professing the Popish religion from 'certain penalties and disabilities, imposed on them by an Act made in the 11th and 12th of William 3, intituled, An Act for the further preventing the growth of Popery,' have been misreprepresented and misunderstood. 2. That the said Act, passed in the 18th of his present Majesty, does not repeal or alter, or in any manner invalidate or render in effectual, the several statutes made to prohibit the exercise of the Popish religion, previous to the statute of the 11th and 12th of William 3. 3. That no ecclesiastical or spiritual jurisdiction or authority is given, by the said Act of the 18th of his present Majesty, to the Pope or the See of Rome. 4. That this House does, and ever will, watch over the interests of the Protestant religion with the most unremitted attention; and that all attempts to seduce the youth of this kingdom from the established church to Popery, are highly criminal according to the laws in force, and are a proper subject of further regulation. 5. That all endeavours to disquiet the minds of the people, by misrepresenting the said Act of the 18th of his present Majesty, as inconsistent with the safety, or irreconcile able to the principles of the Protestant religion, have a manifest tendency to disturb the public peace, to break the union necessary at this time, to bring dishonour on the national character, to discredit the Protestant religion in the eyes of other nations, and to furnish occasion for the renewal of the persecution of our Protestant brethren in other countries." Mr. Ellis acquainted the House, that he was directed by the committee to move, "That leave be given to bring in a Bill to secure the Protestant religion in Great, Britain from any encroachments of Popery, by more effectually restraining Papists, or persons professing the Popish religion, from teaching or taking upon themselves the education or government of, the children of Protestants."-Agreed to. Mr. Burke's Establishment Bill rejected.] June 23. The House went again into a committee on Mr. Burke's Establishment Bill. The remaining clauses were all rejected. A motion was then made to report the proceedings to the House; upon which the previous question was moved by lord North, that Mr. Elwes the chairman do leave the chair. being carried, the committee was dissolved, and the Bill was consequently lost. This Debates in the Commons on the Bill for securing the Protestant Religion.] June 23. Sir George Savile presented to the House, according to order, a Bill" to secure the Protestant religion in Great Britain from any encroachments of Popery, by more effectually restraining Papists, or persons professing the Popish religion, from teaching, or taking upon themselves the education or government of the children of Protestants:" and the same was read the first time. June 26. The Bill was read a second time, and a motion being made for the Speaker to leave the chair, Sir Joseph Mawbey said, before the House resolved itself into a committee, he wished to say a few words on the Bill. He then stated that some of his constituents had desired him on a former day to advertise the House, that they were ready to adduce witnesses in support of the allegations in the Petition of the Protestant Association, and he was now desired to acquaint the House, that witnesses attended in the lobby to prove every such allegation. He was sure his hon. friend had brought in the present and former Bill, from the purest motives; he had always proved himself a friend to toleration as well as to civil liberty; from the most liberal and praise-worthy motives, he had more than once attempted to unfetter the dissenting clergy from subscriptions: two bills for that purpose had been carried through the House, but as they were not supported by administration, a majority of court lords, and almost all the bishops, had rejected them in the other House. The Bill in favour of Papists was supported by administration, and in consequence was not opposed in the other House and though in the subsequent session the hon. gentleman's Bill in favour of the dissenting clergy had passed, he was himself firmly persuaded, from the predilection given to Popery, it would have been again rejected, unless the Papists had been first released from the Act of the 11th and 12th of king William. He had his doubts of the propriety of the present Bill; because, under the idea of preventing Papists from educating the children of Protestants, he was afraid, by implication at least, it might take off the restrictions contained in an Act of the 23d of Elizabeth, which subjects such as should keep or maintain Popish schoolmasters to a penalty of 10l. per month, and such schoolmasters themselves, unless licenced by the bishop of the diocese, to a year's imprisonment. If this was meant, why not say so in direct terms? If the Bill, by such restraining from the education of Protestants, would virtually authorize them to keep schools for all other purposes, which he feared would be the construction put upon it, he was persuaded instead of allaying the present dis contents, it would increase them. Whatever might be said of the people being misled in their interpretation of the late Act, he believed it could be said of only a few: there were among the petitioners men of knowledge, ability, and learning, and he thought the alarm against the increase of Popery in consequence of that Act, had taken deeper root than many gentlemen imagined: all descriptions of men, he found, were loud against the impolicy of the Act; because, though none, or but few indeed, wished persecution, they thought the Papists had nothing to complain of before; every thing was quiet, and they had construed the relaxation of the penal laws into a full toleration; not less than 33 schools were since established in the neighbourhood of London; many new chapels and mass-houses had been opened in different parts of the kingdom: that he thought if the Papists held the tenets of passive obedience and non-resistance, it was a dangerous and damnable opinion in this free country; our government at present was built on other principles, and he thought any considerable increase of Popery might be dangerous in a civil view, more especially as they submitted in spirituals to a foreign jurisdiction, an imperium in imperio highly improper. Mr. Ambler said, the repeal of the two clauses in the Act of king William would not be endured; especially when he heard a gentleman say in the House, he thought there could be no objection to admit them to a participation of offices; he thought the present Bill would not give satisfaction to the petitioners, 60,000 of whom had signed the various petitions, and amongst them were many men of fashion and sober temper. He could not think the giving way to the desires of so large a body of people was to be considered as any humiliation; that Act, passed three years ago, did not authorize the keeping public schools: this, by implication, would tend to remove former restraints, and legalize the Papists to keep open a public school: they thought that charity covered a multitude of sins," and they would take pains to seduce Protestant children; it was a part of their religion: 33 schools were already set up since the passing of the Act. He had seen a list of them, and the truth of the list the_petitioners were prepared to prove; the Roman Catholics had rid fast indeed, in two years. This Bill certainly authorized Papists to keep schools; proofs were ready of Protestant children being solicited for education by the Papists; money had been offered for that purpose, and in some cases actually given. As to the penalty laid on Protestant parents, it would answer no good purposes; they were usually poor whose children were so sought after, and it might induce the parents themselves to turn Pa pists to avoid the penalty. The Bill there fore he could not approve. Sir George Savile said, if there was any weight in the objection taken by the learned gentleman who spoke last, and his hon. friend who spoke before him, in this Act repealing former acts of restraint on Popish schoolmasters, he thought it might deserve very serious consideration; he believed the objection not founded in point of law; he thought the offer of proofs was not well timed: every gentleman would see the difficulty of drawing a Bill to regulate that which ought not to be tolerated at all: former restraints were not taken away, and that all barriers against Popery were not removed, was certain, for a list had been opened of so sanguinary a nature, that nobody thought they should be enforced; he had had a list of Popish schools given him by a Mr. Swaine, a Protestant teacher. This was not a proper time to go into examination, but if true, they proved the fitness of some regulations; further restraints ought to be put if the cases existed. The Bill said they should not take upon themselves the education of Protestant children: it exempted from penalty music-masters, dancing-masters, fencing and riding-masters, teaching, and not lodging and boarding. mined, and not a single Protestant boy, and only one girl had been received there. He himself had inspected the rules of the Roman Catholic school in Moorfields, and one of the first of them was, not to receive the children of Protestants; nay, one boy had been rejected on that ground. A parliamentary enquiry was improper; it would subject every school-master to penalties that might be levied against him, especially coming under a parliamentary report. The amendment proposed tended to disjoin persons living under the same government: every blacksmith, who took a child apprentice, was supposed improperly to have influence over the mind of his apprentice: you might as well say, he shall not marry a Protestant. He did not admire the spirit and temper of the present Act, but if it would quiet the apprehensions of people, he would consent to it. The learned gentleman supposed it would repeal the Act of Elizabeth. He was surprised at that, because no Act was repealed, unless particularly so expressed: all the laws against Papists were rather accumulative, and this would be such. It ought to be confined to the single purpose of education, and not to interfere with commercial intercourse. No Popish blacksmith, or shoemaker, was at present prevented from taking a Protestant apprentice, and he thought they ought not to be prevented. Mr. Burke was sorry for the credulity of the age and country in which he lived. He himself had been obliged to enquire, though the onus properly lay on such as brought the charge; evidence of the facts The Speaker having left the chair, complained of there was none; no accusers Lord Beauchamp, on sir G. Savile's stood forth; they had been obliged to enmoving an amendment to prevent Papists quire and examine minutely where every from taking Protestant children as ap- school lay, boys and girls; none of them prentices, said, he objected to it, as a re- received the children of the Protestant straint upon trade and commerce. The parents; and this had been done to quiet hon. baronet had thrown out his objec- the minds of a set of men, who had no tions to the Bill, as it legalized the open- possibility of being satisfied; but as these ing of Roman Catholic schools; and some reports had operated on better minds than gentlemen seemed to think it was a great their own, he thought it right to give inindulgence if they took upon them to edu- formation. He had observed the words cate the children of their own persuasion; seminary and seminaries had been used by as to their educating Protestants, he had these people indiscriminately; in the proconsulted all the Catholic gentlemen, and per signification of them (foundations for they had assured him on their honour, the instruction of youth, or colleges, or they had made strict enquiry, and had no institutions for orders) there were none knowledge of any such practice; there such in England: he was sorry for it, bewas not a single school in the neighbour-cause he was sure men had better be so hood of London, where enquiries had not bred in England, than in France, Flanders, been made; the books of such as were or Spain: there were no schools teaching maintained by subscription had been exa- liberal science, or classics, not one that |