MR. MELLOR objected to the large sum paid away in pensions, and asked the Chief Secretary for Ireland to explain the principle on which superannuations were granted.

MR. MELDON called attention to what he regarded as an injustice in the giving of pensions. The pensions for the Irish Constabulary were calculated on the rate of pay when they entered the service, while the pensions of the metropolitan police were calculated on the rate of pay they received at the time they retired. The pensions in the latter case would be much higher. Both bodies were appointed under the same Act; then why should this difference exist as to the mode of calculating their pensions?

MR. MITCHELL HENRY reminded the Committee that the constables for whom this money was voted would be more properly denominated a military force. He should always consider it a standing disgrace to this country that it was necessary that this enormous sum should be voted for the purpose of keeping up such a force for Ireland; and he believed that it would be entirely unnecessary if they would concede to the Irish people their just rights.

MR. WHITWELL wished to know whether the right hon. Gentleman's attention had been directed to the high rents of police barracks?

SIR MICHAEL HICKS - BEACH said, his attention had been called to the cost of barracks for the Constabulary, but the matter was more difficult than it seemed to be at first sight. It was desirable when the circumstances were favourable that the barracks should be public property. As to the remark of the hon. Member for Galway (Mr. Mitchell Henry) he believed that whatever might be the armament or drill of

the pension list, if they found, on the one hand, that it was objected to as too large, and on the other as too small, they might fairly conclude that it was about what it ought be. All the pensions were computed upon Acts of Parliament open to the inspection of the hon. Member for Ashton-under-Lyne (Mr. Mellor.) It should be remembered that the constables in this force were picked men, and that Ireland having a healthy climate, pensioners possibly lived there longer than they did in other countries. In reply to the hon. Members for Kildare (Mr. Meldon) and Longford (Mr. Errington), he wished to say that although he felt unable to comply with the desires expressed in the memorials hitherto sent in, he was ready to take any fresh point into consideration, and to make the proper recommendations with regard to it.

MR. RONAYNE contended that the police of Ireland were a well-organized military force, and were not good as detective or as ordinary police constables. Its members were to be found even at flower shows with rifles on their shoulders and swords by their sides. Their conduct, however, he must admit, was unimpeachable, and they acted with great consideration towards the people, considering the large powers which they possessed under certain Acts of Parliament.

MR. CHARLES LEWIS moved that Progress should be reported. Hon. Members had been 10 hours in that House, and three distinguished Members-those for Taunton, Rochester, and Carlisle-were already fast asleep. The House had been sitting for 10 hours, and it was desirable that they should know to what extent the endurance of private Members was to be called upon at that period of the Session.

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the Chairman do report Progress, and ask leave to sit again."(Mr. Charles Lewis.)

MR. BERESFORD HOPE believed that if the hon. Member for Londonderry wished to go home to bed, they would all wish him a very good night.

MR. R. POWER said, there were more than 90 Members in the House, and as

only three were asleep, there could be no objection to their going on. On the Treasury Bench they were particularly wide awake.

MR. GATHORNE HARDY hoped that the Motion for reporting Progress would not be pressed at that early hour. The three hon. Members who had been referred to as being asleep were always found very particularly wide awake when any subject they were interested in was being discussed, and it was a privilege of that House, which he hoped would always continue, that hon. Members might go to sleep when they did not wish to listen to what was being said.

MR. M'CARTHY DOWNING bore testimony to the excellence and efficiency of the police force in Ireland.

Motion, by leave, withdrawn. Original Question put, and agreed to. (3.) £52,366, to complete the sum for Miscellaneous Legal Charges, Ireland. CLASS IV.-EDUCATION, SCIENCE, AND ᎪᎡᎢ .

(4.) £6,726, to complete the sum for the National Gallery.

MR. BERESFORD HOPE complained of the insufficient accommodation provided for the Gallery, and offered suggestions to the Government, with a view to improved arrangements. Vote agreed to.

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the Item of £10,000, for the Meteorological Committee of the Royal Society, be reduced by £1,000.”—(Mr. M‘Lagan.)

MR. LYON PLAYFAIR said, a previous Treasury had expressed its opinion that the Meteorological Society of Scotland ought to have a portion of the grant, because of the good work it was doing.

MR. M'LAREN said, the people of Scotland did not ask for any largesse from the people of England or Ireland, because if the £1,000 was given to Scotland, she would only be getting her share of the taxes to which she contributed one tenth part.

GENERAL SIR GEORGE BALFOUR supported the Amendment, on the important condition that the observations by the Meteorological Society of Scotland were more varied than those of the office in London, and were practically of a character very different from that of the Society in London; being also applied to develop an industry of great value to Scotland-that of ascertaining the influence of the weather and the

temperature of the sea on the herring fishery. There were other important rected their inquiries, and it would be objects to which the Scotch Society dieasy to arrange that the investigations of the London and Edinburgh Societies should co-operate for the general good, and thus prevent conflicts or rivalries. The acquisition of the knowledge which

(6.) Motion made, and Question posed,

"That a sum, not exceeding £9,550, be granted to Her Majesty, to complete the sum necessary to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March 1876, for Grants in aid of the Expenditure of certain Learned So

cieties in Great Britain and Ireland."

MR. M'LAGAN (for Mr. MALCOLM) moved the reduction of the Vote by the sum of £1,000. He did not consider that the money spent by the Meteorological Committee of the Royal Society was as profitably administered as it might be, and he contended that the Meteorological Society of Scotland ought to have a share of this grant. The Society of London had acknowledged the value of the work being done by the Society of Scotland, which had applied itself to agricultural and other pursuits.

were at present made by the fee for the brand affixed to the herring barrels yielded nearly £9,000, and this money should, as a matter of course, be employed for the benefit of the trade, instead of being used to swell the Miscellaneous Revenue receipts.

MR. W. H. SMITH said, the money was not given to the Meteorological Society of England, but to a Committee of the Royal Society. The Treasury were well aware of the value of the services of the Meteorological Society of Scotland, and during the autumn they would inquire into the circumstances of the grant, and see whether it was fitting and proper that a portion of the money should go to Scotland.

MR. RAMSAY said, it was quite evident that the money was not being administered as well as it might be,

Third Reading-Government Officers Security* [188]; House Occupiers Disqualification Removal [164], debate adjourned; Infanticide *

[43], debate adjourned: Parliamentary Elections Returning Officers* [32], and passed. Withdrawn-Coroners (Ireland)* [36].

arrested and illegally imprisoned. The Attorney General had stated that the learned Judge discharged him because of his ill health and inability to pay; but he had since admitted that those on whose authority he had made that state

SUPPLY.

Order for Committee read. Motion made, and Question proposed, "That Mr. Speaker do now leave the Chair."

COUNTY COURTS IMPRISONMENT FOR DEBT-CASE OF WILLIAM

SMALLBONES.-RESOLUTION.

MR. CHARLES LEWIS rose to

move

"That this House has learnt with concern and regret that, notwithstanding the plain provisions of 'The Debtors Act, 1869,' the County Court Judge at Farnham committed to prison one William Smallbones for non-payment of a sum of costs awarded against him in a suit in equity, such imprisonment being, in the opinion of Her Majesty's Attorney General, stated to this House on the 23rd of July, wholly illegal, and extending continuously over eight months; That, inasmuch as it appears that such imprisonment took place under an order of the Judge made as upon the Commission of a contempt of Court, this House is of opinion that the exercise of the power of committal for contempt of Court by County Court Judges ought to be placed under greater legislative restraint." The hon. Member observed, that this matter related to a grievous infringement of the liberty of the subject, and it was one which ought not to be passed over in silence. The answer which he received yesterday from the Attorney General was, he did not say intentionally, but unnecessarily offensive, and that seemed to him another reason why the matter should be pressed a little further. Under the existing law a County Court Judge might imprison a man who refused to obey an order for the payment of a debt which there was reason to believe he could pay, but the order for committal was limited to a period of six weeks. In this case William Smallbones, a farm labourer 72 years of age, had been detained in prison for eight calendar months, under an irregular order of the County Court Judge. When, on a writ of Habeas Corpus, Smallbones was brought before Mr. Baron Huddleston, he discharged him from custody on the ground that he had been illegally

regretted that the Attorney General had declined to make any inquiry as to the cause of the inaccuracy of the information which had been communicated to

him. It was a matter of the greatest importance that Judges should be kept within their power and authority; and, therefore, he (Mr. Lewis) asked the House to express its disapprobation of the conduct of the County Court Judge in having for eight months unlawfully imprisoned this man.

Amendment proposed,

To leave out from the word "That" to the end of the Question, in order to add the words "this House has learnt with concern and regret that, notwithstanding the plain provisions of The Debtors Act, 1869,' the County Court Judge at Farnham committed to prison one William Smallbones for non-payment of a sum of costs awarded against him in a suit in equity, such imprisonment being, in the opinion of Her Majesty's Attorney General, stated to this House on the 22nd of July, wholly illegal, and extending continuously over eight months; and that, inasmuch as it appears that such imprisonment took place under an order of the judge made as upon the commission of a contempt of court, this House is of opinion that the exercise of the power of committal for contempt of court by County Court judges ought to be placed Charles Lewis,) under greater legislative restraint," (Mr.

-instead thereof.

THE ATTORNEY GENERAL said, he had been charged by the hon. Member for Londonderry with discourtesy; but he appealed to the House whether it was his ordinary habit in answering Questions to act discourteously. He had always endeavoured to give full and complete answers where the public interest allowed it to be done, and he was at a loss to understand how the hon. Member or other hon. Members could consider his answer on the occasion alluded to as curt or discourteous. The hon. Member had urged as his reason for pressing his Motion that it related to an infringement of the liberty of the subject: this was true, but the man who had been illegally imprisoned had obtained his release. Having been misinformed as to the real facts of the case, he (the Attorney General) had made in the first instance an

inaccurate statement to the House as to the grounds upon which Smallbones had been released from prison; as soon as he discovered the mistake into which he had been led, he stated the fact to the House, and made what he had intended to be a full and complete apology for his mis-statement. He had since endeavoured to discover how he had been misled. He only got notice of the fact on Tuesday, and hon. Members, who were aware how greatly he had been occupied since, would know how very little time had been left him for making an investigation into such a matter. The County Court Judges were not responsible to him, and, as he had stated the day before, however anxious he might be to procure information, he could not do it himself, but only through the aid of others. With regard to the Motion itself, every hon. Member of the House must regret that a man should have been illegally imprisoned for eight months; but the House would hardly pass a Resolution affirming so obvious a fact. As regarded the second part of the Motion, its first paragraph appeared to answer the second, for when the House was called upon to affirm that what the County Court Judge had done in the way of committal, was contrary to law, he did not see why the power of committal should be placed under greater legislative restraint.

MR. W. M. TORRENS, while admitting the courtesy of the Attorney General, contended that even if the law were sufficient and there had been an infraction of it, the House of Commons was the place where the matter should be taken notice of. He asked whether it was consistent with recent legislation that a County Court Judge should commit a man for not paying an instalment, should commit him again and again for the same reason, and so by repeated committals re-impose the law of imprisonment for debt? When an infraction of the law had been made by any Judge, it was the duty of the House to mark its sense of the matter as a warning to others.

THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER said, as to the personal question every one who knew how his hon. and learned Friend the Attorney General conducted himself in the House would feel that there was no intentional discourtesy shown by him in the matter,

nor in reality any discourtesy at all. With regard to the more important principle of the question raised by the hon. Member for Londonderry, he thought the House ought to bear in mind that it was a somewhat delicate matter for one House of Parliament to interfere in a question relating to the administration of justice. And although he could not say that there there might be cases in which it would be quite right for the House of Commons to pass a Resolution reflecting on the conduct of the Judges, it was a matter in which the House ought to proceed upon full and authentic information. At present he considered they were not in possession of such authentic and full information as to enable them to interfere in the matter. The County Court Judges were not responsible to the House of Commons, but to the Lord Chancellor, and hon. Members did not know what information the Lord Chancellor might have on the subject. He hoped his hon. Friend would accept the assurance that the matter should not be allowed to pass without inquiry, and would be content that the case should be left in the hands of the Lord Chancellor, to whom it properly belonged.

Question put, "That the words proposed to be left out stand part of the Question."

The House divided:-Ayes 74; Noes 18 Majority 56.

Main Question, "That Mr. Speaker do now leave the Chair," put, and agreed to.

SUPPLY-CIVIL SERVICE ESTIMATES. CLASS IV.-EDUCATION, SCIENCE, AND

ART.

SUPPLY-considered in Committee.

(In the Committee.) Motion made, and Question proposed, "That a sum, not exceeding £13,950, be

granted to Her Majesty, to complete the sum necessary to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March 1876, for Grants to Scottish Universities."

DR. C. CAMERON moved the reduction of the Vote by £200, being the amount proposed for a Chair of Theory and Practice of Teaching in Edinburgh University. He did so, because no information had been vouchsafed to the Scottish public as to the nature of the scheme