Clause agreed to, and added to the Bill.
Further Amendments made; Bill

Second Reading deferred till To- passed, and sent to the Commons.

officers of the Militia would receive with | for which experience in those duties and confidence and respect. He would add a knowledge of the locality were essenthat he had perfect and absolute confi- tial. They had to attend Central Boards dence in the Assistant Adjutant Gene- of Examination, do the work of brigade rals; but he would suggest that there majors, and several other things. A ought to be an additional Assistant Ad- young officer from a Line regiment jutant General of Militia. He had viewed would find himself like a fish out of with pleasure the adoption of a system water during the first two years of his by which Army officers now joined the adjutancy of Militia, and the office was Militia; but he had not observed any to be held for only five years. The obsigns as yet of the Militia officers join-ject of the Warrant seemed to be to get ing the Regular Army, and he hoped shortly to see the prospect of a successful arrangement between the two branches of the service.

House in Committee.

Clauses 1 to 20, inclusive, agreed to. Clause 21 (Appointments and commissions of officers).

EARL CADOGAN, in reply to the noble Lord's (Lord Waveney's) criticism, reminded him that the Bill was, in reality, merely a consolidation Bill, and that it did not preclude the future consideration of the reforms which he advocated.

rid of the present adjutants, because it gave them a higher rate of retirement if they resigned at once, but informed them that if they insisted on remaining in for a year or years longer they would receive only the old rate of retirement. Under the present system the regiments were improving in efficiency every year.

THE EARL OF SANDWICH was also of opinion that it would be a great mistake to make any change in the class of officers who now discharged the duties of Militia adjutants. He would remind their Lordships that all officers of the Line, with the exception of the colonel, were under the regimental control of some other officer or officers. The adjutant of a Militia regiment was his own master for the greater part of the year, and they were going to put young officers of Line regiments into that position.

THE LORD CHANCELLOR begged to suggest to their Lordships that the question on which the noble Duke and the noble Earl had just addressed their Lordships was in no way touched by the clause now before the Committee.

THE DUKE OF BUCCLEUCH took occasion to observe that the recent Regulations issued by the War Office for the appointment of officers of the Army as adjutants in the Militia were, in his view, of the most objectionable character. Ever since the formation of the force it was of a local character, and had always been looked upon as a local force, ranged in the different districts, and commanded by its own officers; and if they now proceeded to appoint officers in the Army as adjutants, he believed. VISCOUNT ENFIELD said, the apthat they would totally destroy the local pointment of adjutants was of great imcharacter of the force, and he was con-portance, and the greatest care ought to fident that if they destroyed its local be taken with reference to it. His 23 character they would destroy it alto-years' experience had taught him that gether, because he believed that Militia the adjutants were the life and soul of recruits would never consent to join a the regiments. Smart men of the Line force that was not commanded by the know nothing of the feeling and temofficers connected with the county, but perament of the men of the Militia. He by those of whom they knew nothing at trusted the Government would re-conall. Under 42 Geo. III., special restric-sider the question discussed by the noble tions were made with regard to the ap- Duke and the noble Earl. pointment of adjutants of Militia. They must possess certain qualifications; but now they were taken out of the Staff of the depot, and he would point out that it was not necessary that because a man was a good soldier, and performed his other duties extremely well, he would be a good adjutant. Another objection to the proposal was that the adjutants of Militia regiments had duties to perform

VISCOUNT CARDWELL concurred with his noble and learned Friend (the Lord Chancellor) that this question of the adjutants was in no way raised by this Bill. It was one which had recently been discussed in their Lordships' House, and he thought the explanation given of the Warrant was satisfactory. There were a number of adjutants of Militia regiments who desired a better scale of re

tirement; there were a number of com- | vey a threat that if the adjutants did manding officers of Militia regiments not now retire on a certain amount of who were not satisfied with their ad- pension, they would be placed on worse jutants; and there were a number of terms hereafter both as regarded their officers of the Line who would prefer duties and pensions. becoming adjutants of Militia to going out on half-pay from the Army. If, as he understood, the Warrant was intended to meet those cases, he thought there was much to be said for it; but the question did not arise on this clause, nor was it raised by this Bill.

EARL CADOGAN said, that the case had been correctly stated by the noble Viscount. Various complaints had been made by adjutants, and the Secretary for War had devised this scheme of retirement to meet those complaints, and now it was said that the Government were forcing these adjutants out of the service. Those officers who did not wish to perform the new duties which would fall to their share would be able to ac

THE MARQUESS OF SALISBURY said, he was sure that the opinions which had been expressed by his noble Friends would be very carefully considered by the Secretary of State for War; and he had authority to state that there was nothing further from his right hon. Friend's intention than either to cast any slur upon those gentlemen or to evince a desire to dispense with their services; still less to show any want of courtesy or confidence to the colonels of Militia.

Clause verbally amended, and ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Remaining clauses agreed to. Amendments made; the Report thereof to be received To-morrow; and Bill to be printed, as amended. (No. 264.)

cept the retiring pay, which would be very advantageous, and those who did not retire would remain in the service under the old conditions. The whole subject of the duties and position of the TURNPIKE ACTS CONTINUANCE BILL.

Militia adjutants was under the consideration of a Committee of the War Office, and he hoped that the Report would meet with the approbation of all parties.

THE DUKE OF BUCCLEUCH considered that the clause was an intimation by the Secretary of State to these adjutants that they ought to retire from the service on this increased pension, and that if they did not they would be placed in a disadvantageous position. The noble Duke also complained of the new arrangements in reference to the position in which the adjutants' clerks would be placed.

LORD DENMAN said, it would be extremely hard on any Judge who might have earned a retiring pension, if he were told that, at the end of 15 years, he must immediately retire, or submit to a smaller reward than those who suddenly quitted the Bench, and it was equally unjust to impose any such analogous conditions on adjutants, and he expressed a hope that the Government would endeavour to make provision for the retention of the services of the adju

tants.

THE EARL OF LIMERICK joined those who were of opinion that the scheme of retirement did practically con

(Earl Jersey.)

(NO. 222.) REPORT. Amendments reported (according to order.)

THE EARL OF CHICHESTER ob

jected to Clause 9, which would transfer the rating of certain hundreds in the county of Kent from the local authorities to the county authorities, and moved that it be struck out.

THE DUKE OF RICHMOND supported the clause.

LORD REDESDALE supported the Amendment.

On Question, "That the clause stand part of the Bill?" Their Lordships divided: ·- - Contents 15; Not-Contents 13: Majority 2..

Resolved in the affirmative.

An Amendment made; and Bill to be read 3a To-morrow.

LICHFIELD CAPITULAR ESTATES.

QUESTION. OBSERVATIONS.

LORD VERNON asked the First Church Estates Commissioner, Whether, the Bishop of Lichfield having refused his consent, as visitor to the Dean and Chapter of Lichfield, to the scheme for commuting their capitular estates, under

| to conceive that the discretion thus given to the Visitor was intended to be used, or that it should visions of the scheme laid before him by the be used otherwise than in reference to the proCapitular Body."

upon

31st and 32nd Victoria, chap. 114, unless they comply with a stipulation that has no reference to the scheme or the Act under which it is framed, the Ecclesiastical Commissioners intend to acquiesce No action was taken by the Board in such refusal, or whether they will in that Report, nor did he see that any the next Session of Parliament introduce further steps were within the powers of a Bill to amend the Act by either dis- the Estates Committee or of the Board. pensing with such consent altogether or The Estates Committee in the Report giving an appeal to the Archbishop of expressed their opinion, he thought, Canterbury? The noble Lord said, that clearly and strongly, as adverse to the the question was one of considerable course adopted by the right rev. Prelate. local interest, and the whole of the cir- In that opinion, he (the Earl of Chichescumstances had been already published. ter) entirely concurred. It was quite The right rev. Prelate, actuated, no true that the delay complained of indoubt, by conscientious conviction, had flicted a considerable hardship on the refused his assent to the scheme because incumbents of small livings in the pait did not contain two conditions which tronage of the Chapter, since it indefithe Dean and Chapter and the Commis-nitely postponed the consideration of the sioners both said they had not sufficient funds to carry out; but it was evident from the Report of the Ecclesiastical Commissioners that they did not approve of the action of the right rev. Prelate. If that was the case he wished to know whether the Commissioners were going to allow the matter to rest there. Great benefit would accrue from the adoption of the scheme, and he wished to know whether that benefit was to be lost because the right rev. Prelate wished to force his will upon an unwilling Dean and Chapter.

THE EARL OF CHICHESTER said that, so far as he knew, the Ecclesiastical Commissioners had no intention of applying to Parliament for additional powers, and that, in fact, it was not the duty or the practice of this Commission to originate legislation. In answer to the noble Lord's other Question-namely, whether the Commissioners acquiesced in the course taken by the right rev. Prelate, he would just refer to what had actually occurred. In the Report of the Estates Committee, dated the 30th of January, 1873, they stated

"The scheme for giving effect to this agreement is framed under certain statutory provisions which it may be observed have now been applied, or are in course of being applied, to all the other Capitular Bodies in the Kingdom, the only two Chapters which have not so commuted their estates being now in communication with the Commissioners with that view, and one of these provisions makes the consent of the Visitor of the Dean and Chapter a necessary condition to enable the Commissioners, after agreeing with the Chapter for such conmutation, to submit for ratification by Her Majesty in Council a scheme for carrying out the agreement. It appears, however, to the Committee impossible

local claims with the view of their augmentation. The delay was also to be regretted on the ground that the Chapter estates continued to be granted out on beneficial leases, and their unimproved and unimprovable condition was prolonged. That was a loss not only to the Church, but to the country. He did not feel called upon to say a word either in favour of or against the project of the right rev. Prelate to which the Dean and Chapter refused their consent, or, rather, to which they demurred, beyond this, that his late friend the Dean of Lichfield

(Dean Champneys) was the last man in the world to offer an obstructive opposition to any scheme which, in his opinion, might tend to the welfare or efficiency of the Church.

THE BISHOP OF LICHFIELD said, the course adopted by the noble Lord who had asked that Question seemed to be unusual and inconvenient. A discretion was given by law to the Bishop to withhold his consent from a scheme for the transfer of the capitular estates to the Ecclesiastical Commissioners. that discretion was used unlawfully, the Law. remedy lay in an appeal to a Court of

If

If the discretion so vested in the Bishop was in itself inexpedient, it could be withdrawn by the Legislature. The question related, in fact, to a conflict of discretions. The Dean and Residentiary Chapter of Lichfield had a discretion to refuse to bring into operation the provisions contained in two Acts of Parliament for the revival of two suspended Canonries. The assumption of the noble Lord that he (the Bishop of Lichfield) was the only person to blame, seemed to

[281]; Agricultural Holdings (England) (recomm.) [277]; Ecclesiastical Fees Redistribution * [282]. Considered as amended-Third Reading-Copyright of Designs (re-comm.) [270]; Public Works Loans [269], and passed.

*

Withdrawn-Post Office (Superannuation and Gratuities) [245]; Metropolis Gas Companies (re-comm.) * [224].

CLASSIFIED BRITISH SHIPS.

QUESTION.

him unfair. It was said that he hindered | Considered as amended Unseaworthy Ships the augmentation of poor benefices in the patronage of the Chapter. If the Dean and Chapter were to agree to his proposal, he would sign their scheme, and then the difficuly would be at an end. The other party was as much to blame as he was, unless their reasons were altogether good, and his altogether bad. That remained to be proved, and ought not to be assumed. It was not likely that he should have disagreed with an honoured friend like the late Dean Champneys, without some strong reason touching his sense of duty. That was not the time or place to state all his reasons, some of which were of a very delicate and personal kind; but he might say that when a large sum of public money was to be placed at the disposal of any corporate body, the common sense of mankind required that body to fill up its vacancies, and make itself in every way as efficient as possible. The General Chapter of Lichfield had passed a resolution that the number of canonries ought to be raised to six, by the revival of the two which were now suspended. It was not the case, as the noble Lord had said, that he (the Bishop of Lichfield) was trying to impose his will upon the Dean and Residentiary Chapter; but that he was endeavouring to carry out the Resolution which the General Chapter had adopted, and to bring into operation the provisions of two Acts of Parliament for the revival of suspended Canonries.

House adjourned at a quarter before
Eight o'clock, till To-morrow, a
quarter before Five o'clock.

HOUSE OF COMMONS,

Thursday, 5th August, 1875.

*

MINUTES.]-SUPPLY-considered in Committee
-Resolutions [August 4] reported.
WAYS AND MEANS-considered in Committee
-Resolution [August 4] reported.
PUBLIC BILLS-Ordered-First Reading--Con-
solidated Fund (Appropriation)
Second Reading-Restriction on Penal Actions
and Remission of Penalties* [267]; Depart-
ment of Science and Art [283]; Foreign
Jurisdiction [284], debate adjourned.
Committee Report Agricultural Holdings
(England) [277]; Supreme Court of Judica-
ture Act (1873) Amendment (No. 2) * [162];
Copyright of Designs [270]; National School
Teachers Residences (Ireland) * [279].

MR. GORST asked the President of the Board of Trade, Whether he can undertake to lay before the House, at the beginning of next Session, a Return which will show, approximately-1, the number of registered British Ships which are not surveyed and classed either by Lloyd's or by some other registry of like character; 2, how many of these unclassed ships, being yachts, fishing boats, river steamers, &c. do not fall within the category of sea-going merchantmen; 3, how many of the residue of unclassed sea-going merchantmen are already under survey by the Board of Trade as passenger steamers or otherwise?

SIR CHARLES ADDERLEY, in reply, said, that he would have been very glad to give the information required by the hon. Gentleman if it were posHe sible, but he found it was not. would see during the Recess what could be done. He could give the number of British ships which were not surveyed or classed at Lloyd's; but the hon. Gentleman must know that many were registered in Canada and other Colonies, of which he could obtain no information. He might, however, say, generally, that he should direct his attention to the whole subject.

THE TICHBORNE CASE.-QUESTION.

DR. KENEALY asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department, If he would state to the House the grounds on which he advised, or who advised, that Hopwood, a witness for the prosecution in the Tichborne case, and who was convicted of felony last August at the Cheshire Assizes and sentenced to twelve months' imprisonment with hard labour, has had six months of that imprisonment remitted; and, if he will have any objection to lay upon the Table of the House any Papers or Documents relating to the said remission of sentence, and the grounds thereof?