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Company, of itself, in his opinion, a matter highly criminal. Another thing had fallen from the right hon. gentleman, which he could not consent to, and that was this: the right hon. gentleman had said, Mr. Hastings was not answerable for the manner of effecting his orders to seize the treasures of the Begum, or for the severities practised on their ministers: that he must deny whoever in Great Britain directed a felony to be committed, was answerable for all the consequences. Mr. Hastings gave orders for the plunder of the Begums; he directed it to be carried into effect, and he was answerable for all the consequences. An hon. gentleman had talked of Mr. Hastings sending home advice of the present he received to the Directors. Undoubtedly he did so; but how? He wrote home word that the sum was too large to be concealed; that he had put it to their account; but he begged of them to let him have it for himself. The right hon. gentleman talked of releasing a guarantee, as if it were a slight matter. What, violate the solemnlypledged faith of the Company, break a guarantee, and call it a trifle! The act was in the highest degree criminal.

Mr. Dempster said, that his ideas concerning the defence of Mr. Hastings were so different from those of other gentlemen, that they were likely to injure the person he meant to serve; for this reason he had hitherto generally given a silent vote upon the days when the charges had been heard; but as he now foresaw he should vote in a minority, he would venture to declare why he thought Mr. Hastings ought not to be impeached. When this country granted a power to the Company to conduct the government of their territories in India, they authorized the sending out governors to act at discretion as the necessity of the case required; and unless it could be proved that they acted from motives of personal corruption, for what they did upon the principle of state necessity, they ought not to be held amenable; for governors exercising power at such an immense distance as India, could not be called to account like British ministers at home. He justified the treatment of the Begum's eunuchs, by saying the custom of the East sanctioned such severities; that money was there collected by the whip, and that stripes were the usual means of our enforcing payment.

Mr. Boughton Rous said, that although he was ready to concur in opinion with

the hon. gentleman who spoke last, that the conduct of persons who had been employed in stations of great power in India, ought not to be scrutinized by those rigid maxims which belong to our own constitution; yet he could not allow a justification to be set up for Mr. Hastings by reference to a supposed practice of cruelty in the revenue system of Bengal, which he did not conceive to exist. He mentioned some circumstances to show, that the custom of enforcing the collection of the revenues by corporal punishment, was either absolutely discontinued by the English, or that it prevailed infinitely less than it had done before the country came into our possession. As to the question before the committee, Mr. Rous said, that, according to his idea of the jaghire tenure in India, and of those jaghires possessed by the princesses of Oude, he held the resumption of them to be a justifiable act, upon principles of general policy, even notwithstanding the guarantee of the Company's government, provided an equivalent was secured to them in money. But he did not think sufficient grounds were laid to justify the seizure of their treasures, and therefore he must join in the resolution proposed, at the same time without pledging himself, in the present stage of the business, necessarily to vote for an impeachment, or to reject the plea of extenuation, in case there should appear, as he thought there would, in discussing some of the remaining charges against Mr. Hastings, matter deserving rather the applause than the censure of Parliament. He here made an appeal to the candour of those gentlemen who had been in India, and whose residence in that country had unquestionably qualified them to judge between him and the hon. gentleman who spoke last, to say, whether the cruel treatment mentioned by the hon. gentleman, or the direct reverse of the propositions, was the most distinguishing feature of the English government in Bengal.

Mr. Le Mesurier defended Mr. Hastings with considerable warmth, denying that any one person in India called for the crimination, much less his impeachment, although it had been said that millions complained of his conduct.

Mr. Samuel Smith said he trusted, even at a late hour, that the situation he formerly held, and the circumstances under which he'quitted it, would secure to him the attention of the committee for a few minutes: he rose not merely as the advocate of Mr.

Hastings, but in defence of public situa- | object of impeachment. He said-Is there any nation in Europe that does not feel or know the services he has rendered this country, and that it was his measures and firmness that defeated the designs of very able men sent to that part of the world, to counteract his plans, and to conspire our ruin? We are trying, says he, government upon the narrow scale of private life; we are holding out that, in the exertions to save an empire, the scope and tendency of the measure shall be laid out of the question, and the little errors that may have arisen, become the subject of impeachment. I am sorry to remark, that there seems to be but little inducement for a man to risk any thing in the public service, or to exert himself beyond the cold line of official duty: this country, at some future time, may feel the effect of such a doctrine. Confirmed in my opinion, that it is uncandid to try Mr. Hastings by the discussion of minute parts of his conduct, on questions of abstract proposition, and without taking into our view the scope and tendency of it, and the material benefits that have resulted to this country, and which it every hour feels, I shall give my decided negative to the question.

tion, called upon to act for the preservation of the state, in great and critical moments, when it is necessary to decide without much deliberation, and the salvation of the empire may depend upon immediate action. Under such circumstances, and when the great end has been attained, he said that it was surely hard to criminate, because in the execution of it there may have been some errors, which never would have arisen in cases where the subject could have met a cool deliberation. That the severity towards the Begums in the execution of those plans, was made necessary to be carried into effect with firmness, from the situation in which the empire then stood, and when a want of decision might have lost it, was contended as a criminal charge against Mr. Hastings, and argued as wanton acts of cruelty; surely it was a little unfair to attribute it to such motives, when the whole tenour of his private life gives a complete negative to such an assertion. That he would venture to say there is not a more humane, a more benevolent, a more generous man, or a man more open to the calls of private friendship, or who during his administration had been a better friend to the distressed, or more liberally relieved them. That he would, for one, never admit that good and amiable principles in the private man, could be so contrasted in the public. Had there ever existed in this or any other country any administration, the most pure, whose every act would bear the test of abstract investigation? If such conduct is difficult to stand the trial of complete perfection in a free government like this, how much less is it to be expected in that of a governor sent to rule a people accustomed to despotic government, and prone to look upon every re. Lord George Cavendish intimated, that laxation of severity and enforcement, as a as the Treaty was a matter of great imweakness in the executive member of it? portance, inasmuch as it deranged all our That a people used to the habits of an ancient and established treaties of comabsolute ruler, were but ill formed to re-merce with other countries, a call of the ceive, or to be controlled by the lenient House might be proper. measures of a British constitution. He Mr. Pitt replied, that although sincerely observed that this nation was a humane anxious to have so important a subject inone, and easily roused by the call of op-vestigated before the fullest assembly pospression. That he would state it fairly to sible, yet he believed, from the circum. the committee, and defy any one to dis- stances of the present suggestion, that he prove it, that notwithstanding all that should be fully justified in giving it his has been said within those walls, and all hearty negative. In short, he looked upon the publications that have made their ap- the suggestion in no other light, but as an pearance without them, that the nation artifice to delay the consideration of a did not feel to this moment that Mr. Hast-subject, on which reason and sound policy ings had acted wrong, or that he was an required a speedy determination If a call

The Committee divided: Yeas, 175; Noes 68.

Debate in the Commons on a Motion for taking the Treaty of Commerce with France into consideration.] Feb. 2. Mr. Pitt gave notice, that it was his intention to move that the Treaty of Commerce with France be taken into consideration on Monday se'nnight, the 12th instant.

Mr. For thought the day too early; so much so, that he was amazed the right hon. gentleman should think of naming it.

of the House were really necessary, what excuse could be made for having delayed it so long? Was it, that, until the present moment, they had never considered the Treaty as an object of sufficient importance to justify a call of the House? or would they pretend to say, that they had never known, until now; that it was the intention of ministers to bring it forward as early as possible? He begged leave to remind the noble lord of the expressions of Mr. Fox on a former day, "that the pending Treaty had given rise to so many speculations, and had so materially affected the operations of our manufacturers and merchants, that it became highly necessary to bring it to as speedy a conclusion as possible, in order to put an end to that suspense which its present unfinished state must necessarily give rise to, and a continuance of which must be highly detrimental to the interests of those concerned."

Mr. For rose with great warmth to declare, that he never would consent that the House was to neglect its duty to the country, and go precipitately into the consideration of a measure of great national importance, because any set of men whatever, however respectable their characters, however numerous their description, had thought proper to run before the sanction of Parliament, and enter into speculations which they were by no means warranted to risk engaging in. The right hon. gentleman had alluded to what had fallen from him on a former day, as if he had called for a precipitate and hasty discussion of the Treaty; whereas, what he had said, was not that because any set of men had rashly speculated upon the grounds of the Treaty before it had received the sanction of Parliament, that therefore the deliberation of the House ought to be accelerated, but that whenever the House had deliberated upon it, and passed a vote of approbation-should such a vote passit was their indispensable duty to proceed to the carrying it into execution with all possible celerity, in order to realize those speculations, that the vote and sanction of the House might, as it were, have authorized and encouraged. It was the execution, and not the deliberation, that he wished to have hastened; and therefore, when the right hon. gentleman thought proper to quote what he had said on any former day, he wished he would be so good as to quote him with something like Correctness. It was the characteristic of

the right hon. gentleman's administration to be precipitate in deliberation, and lingering in execution. In most of his measures he had been hasty in coming to the decision of a vote, and he had almost as often had occasion to lament the want of greater deliberation; but he had scarcely ever been equally prompt to carry the vote into execuion after it had passed. With regard to the call of the House suggested by his noble friend, he was astonished at the right hon. gentleman's objecting to it. A call of the House had sometimes been vexatiously made, but it had scarcely ever been refused when desired by any member. That it was now in common decency proper, who would be hardy enough to deny? A measure more novel, or more important, had perhaps never come under the consideration of the House. The right hon. gentleman told them himself the measure was important; the House knew it to be important; the whole country felt it to be important. Would the business, did the right hon. gentleman think, derive a grace in the eyes of foreign Courts, from its being there known to have been rashly and precipitately brought on, and that a call of the House, a thing usual in cases of infinitely less magnitude, had been refused? There was something so ungracious in a refusal, that he was astonished the right hon. gentleman would hazard it.

Mr. Pitt ridiculed the idea of procrastinating the consideration of the Treaty, under the specious pretext of more serious deliberation. It was in fact only an affectation of deliberation, for it was nothing more than putting off, as long as possible, the time for beginning to deliberate, which, in effect, was the sure way to render their deliberations short and sudden-it was like taking time to deliberate previous to deliberation, and put him in mind of the thought, " of a man falling down in a fit of perplexity, thinking of nothing."

Mr. Fox replied, that he never had dreamt of arguing in the illogical, nonsensical, and absurd manner that the right hon. gentleman had ascribed to him; though he was ready to admit, that on a former day the right hon. gentleman had so represented him to have argued; but that misrepresentation had been so ably and so completely corrected and cleared up by two of his hon. friends, (Mr. Francis and Mr. Burke) that he had not thought it necessary on that day to trouble the House with any

decided by a single vote. Would the right hon. gentleman, therefore, contend, that too much reasonable time could be taken in order to enable gentlemen to examine a question of so much novelty, and such acknowledged importance, before they came ultimately to decide upon it by their vote? If the argument of the right hon. gentleman, that the importance of the question alone was a greater motive to cause a full attendance than any call of the House, were a sound one, upon that principle, all the calls of the House, that had hitherto taken place, had been idle and absurd.

Feb. 5. Mr. Pitt moved, "That this House will, upon this day se'nnight,

resolve itself into a committee of the whole House, to consider of so much of his Majesty's Speech, upon the 23rd of January, as relates to the Treaty of Navigation and Commerce with France."

explanation himself. Indeed, it would have been a bad argument for him to have used, had he urged the necessity of preci. pitating the deliberation of the Commercial Treaty with France, in the very same speech in which he was maintaining, that it was impossible for the House to be competent to decide on that Treaty, unless they previously had submitted to them, authentic information of the state of our trade with Portugal, as it stood at present, and as it was likely to stand hereafter. With regard to the right hon. gentleman's quibble, that if the day of deliberation was deferred, the House would be in the state of " a man, who fell down in a fit of perplexity, thinking of nothing," in the interval of the delay, he neither thought the sort of allusion very decent to use within those walls, nor was it at all respectful to the House, talking of them generally, to apply such an allu sion to them. The right hon. gentleman was welcome to apply such allusions to him personally, but to the rest of the House, a little more decency and respect was due. Did he believe that the House, because they at any time postponed the deliberation of any measure of great national importance, from one day to another, "thought of nothing" in the interval? Was it a fact, that gentlemen so far lost sight of and neglected their duty, as not to prepare themselves without doors for the discussion of great questions to be decided in parliament? Many measures were of a nature, to the proper consideration of which, few of the members of that House were competent. Questions of commerce and trade, more especially, were questions, which members of parliament, generally speaking, were not quite so well informed upon as other persons. Before gentlemen, therefore, could make up their minds to the proper vote they ought to give on the Treaty, they must inform themselves by conversing with those whose avocations and professions enable them to be more conversant with commercial subjects. As to the day of deliberation being desired to be procrastinated, it was a necessary procrastination, and not as the right hon. gentleman had called it," an affectation of deliberation, and a mere putting off the day of beginning to discuss the Treaty." What was the day? Perhaps the debate might be of so much length as to be adjourned, and so occupy two days, or more. Still it would be but a single debate, and would all bé

Lord George Cavendish said, that still persevering in his sentiments, that on a discussion so truly important as the treaty with France, there should be the fullest possible attendance, it was his design to move for a call of the House. He wished to do this in order; but the motion now made by the right hon. gentleman precluded him. The period was too short for a call. He must therefore move an amendment, by substituting the words "this day fortnight" for "this day se'nnight," and then he should follow the motion thus amended by a motion for a call of the House.

Mr. Fox rose, and remarked that in consequence of the numerous opportunities which had arisen to confirm his idea, that the disposition of the right hon. gentleman was sanguine even to excess, he felt a slighter degree of astonishment at discovering that on this, as on other important topics, he should violently urge the House on to the consideration of the treaty. But the same experience which he in common with other members had of the consequences of rashly falling in with the wishes of the right hon. gentleman in this respect, prevented him from readily believing that the House would go rashly with him into a discussion, so novel in its quality, and so pregnant with consequences either good or the contrary. It was a new system, in which not only the established doctrines of our forefathers were departed from, but by which the great and most essential principles in our commerce, prin

ciples which, whether wise or erroneous, had made us opulent, were to be completely changed. Surely, a system affecting thus our commerce in its most vital parts, affecting our most intimate and advantageous connexions, and which, though it held out present profit to certain branches of our manufactures, threatened, according to some opinions, ultimate loss to them all, if to be admitted at all, was a system only to be admitted after the most serious and deliberate discussion. What must be the consequences to the character of the nation-what to the dignity of their proceedings, if they should suffer this business to go forth from their hands, accepted on bad grounds, partially stated, and not thoroughly understood?

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able to judge of the expediency of the
measure. Ought not the right hon. gen-
tleman to be thankful to the House for
not yielding to his rash proposals? For
what must have been the consequences to
this country, if the propositions had passed
in the indigested shape in which he brought
them into parliament, and pressed them
on its acceptance? All the dangers would #
have been incurred which the right hon.
gentleman himself afterwards so forcibly
enumerated. Fortunate for the country
was the wise caution of the House in that
instance-fortunate for the right hon.
gentleman himself-fortunate, indeed, had
been his failing in this as well as in other
pursuits, when he has been rescued by
the wisdom of the House from the dangers
of his own rashness! Never had the good&
fortune of the right hon. gentleman been
more apparent than when he had been
unwillingly brought to delay the discussion
of his hasty projects; and when the good
sense and sober judgment of the House
had snatched him from the impending
ruin of his sanguine measures. It was
not only in the instance of the Irish pro-
positions that he had been thus fortunately
checked. He had also brought in a plan
for a commercial treaty with America,
and that would admit of no possible delay.
The House, however, had taught him the
rashness of the proceeding; and that Bill
he never brought again into the House.
On that subject he had been made com-
pletely to change his mind, in consequence
of the lights which he received by prudent
delay.

There was one thing particular in this treaty-one in which it differed from all that ever went before it, and which tended very much to strengthen the argument for a serious deliberation-and that was, that we must take it all or none. It was not a measure, into the detail of which the House could enter with the precaution incident to other topics, of adopting only what part they liked. They must adopt and embrace the whole of the system, or reject it all. On this occasion, though he would not be construed to say, that the general vote given by the House would preclude them from going into the detail, still there was in this measure something essentially different from most questions; for their going into a committee on that day se'nnight, as they were desired to do, was not to be considered as the beginning of their deliberation-but on that first The House would please to consider discussion, the opinion of the House was the size of the object which they were to be called for, he supposed, to the gene- thus required, without the necessary inforral question of the admission of the treaty.mation being granted, and without even It was, therefore, highly incumbent on providing for a full attendance of memthem that they should have time maturely bers by a call of the House, decidedly to to weigh the consequences of a vote which investigate. They were to consider its was to have so much effect on the final influence on all that was great in the discussion of the subject. An occurrence features of their general commerce-in had arisen, the memory of which ought to the principles under which, whether right influence the House on the present occa- or wrong, that commerce had flourishedsion the treaty of navigation and com- and in its power over their connexions merce with Ireland; that treaty.which was with other states, and particularly Por better known to the House by the Irish tugal. He must still urge, how greatly name of the Irish propositions. On that he felt himself alarmed at the state of our subject, as on the present, the right hon. connexion with that power. He was not gentleman deprecated delay. He objected convinced that it would be wise for Engto the arguments of those who recom- land to enter into a commercial conmended to him time and thought. He nexion with France, unless it was clearly desired then, as now, to hurry them on demonstrated that such a connexion was without time for inquiry, or for collecting in no wise to affect our valuable connexion the opinions of those who were the most with Portugal. What was the alternative

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