FER. 28, 1837.]

us? The result (Mr. P. urged) of this would be that the expenditure would be reduced to some fourteen or sixteen millions.

[SENATE.

sing to open the way for improper taxation, and only throwing flowers over the mysterious way, which might hide his pit-fall.

Was this Government (Mr. C. asked) established to levy taxes; to collect, as trustees, the money that was to be expended by the States? Certainly not. When it collects taxes, is it to do it for the use of the States? Is

Gentlemen differed (said Mr. P.) in regard to the question whether there would or would not be a surplus. But if there should be a surplus, did they intend that it should remain in the banks? If there should be a surplus, all concurred in the expression of the opinion that it ought to be distributed. But suppose there should be none, a law of distribution would not take effect, and could, therefore, be the cause of no evil. It was best (he said) to guard on the side of danger, on the supposition that there might be a surplus. Gentlemen up to the close of the last session insisted that there would not then be a cent of surplus, and they came upon us with the full cry of wait, wait till there is a surplus. Was it proper to wait till the danger was upon us, or to provide beforehand even for its possible occurrence? If there should be no surplus, there would, in any case, be no danger. They ought to provide for the danger, which could possibly result in no harm if there should be no surplus, notwithstanding gentlemen argued that the law would have a deleterious effect on the minds of the people. If there should be no surplus, there was no possibility of its debauching the people. The only safe mode was to provide for a distribution.

But the probability was, that there would be a surplus; and, small or great, it was better to distribute it among the States than leave it in the banks. If there, the bubble of paper circulation, promoted by it, would burst, and it would be in danger; though the loss to the Treasury would be slight, in comparison of the general calamity. Let it be generally understood that when there should be a surplus, the banks were not to have it, but it would go back to the States. Some of them had turned the back of the hand for a moment when it was presented; but where was the State that had actually refused to receive it? Some of them were coy in their words; but when a great evil was to be avoided, they thought it better to get clear of it by submitting to the loss. Some States had said they would not touch it. But every one had received it. Congress ought to adopt the measure of distribution till the people should be aroused, and the expenditures and the revenue should be brought down to the economical wants of the Gov

ernment.

Mr. CUTHBERT, having alluded rather indistinctly to the position which Georgia occupied in relation to this subject, said that his friend from South Carolina had stated very justly that some means ought to be devised to prevent extravagant expenditure. But had he been as zealous in providing the proper means of doing it, as in condemning the Government for raising the expenditures? Or when one administration raises their expenditures, did he propose that another should commit, as a remedy, an immediate robbery on the people, collecting their money for the purpose of distribution? His friend, he thought, had fallen into the extreme of error, propo.

ry measures of this kind had not led to evil?

And was there no danger to the Government from this new principle? Could any gentleman, however sanguine in his temper, fail to perceive that this operation would create a disturbance in the machinery of Government? What would be the necessary effect of the measure? The States would get into the Treasury by anticipation, and by imagination it would already be theirs; and not until after the Government was properly sustained would the remainder go to the States, but certain remnants would be left by them for the use of the Government. Representatives from the States would come here to procure the means of excessive internal improvements, and would leave the Government just so much as would maintain a miserable existence. But there was also another view of the subject. Such was the pride and perversion of reason in the human mind, so great was the complication of motives that might be brought to bear upon it, that it was impossible to determine, in some cases, even between two opposite results. It might, therefore, be that the States would sink to a pitiful dependence on the Federal Government. And who dared deny that this might take place? Taken either way, it was a great evil in the proper ma chinery, and eminently disturbing the principle of Government. How great would be the mischief, it was im possible to determine; but even this uncertainty, in one sense, made it the more terrific. Was this measure, then, to be cherished and encouraged? Mr. C. called upon Senators who had an influence and name with the American people to maintain those great principles on which their safety and happiness depended.

The Senators from South Carolina had acknowledged, not only by their actions but their words, that there was no reason to apprehend a surplus in the coming year. This, then, was a new dread of a surplus, which had arisen suddenly, since Saturday last at six o'clock; (alluding to the origin of the proposition for distribution in the House.) That (Mr. C. said) was the date of this new anxiety.

Mr. NILES here made some remarks on the subject, in opposition to distribution, and unfavorable to the Senate, when opposed to the administration.

Here a short conversation took place, by Messrs. CLAY, WRIGHT, WEBSTER, and BENTON, on the subject of suspending the action on the bill till to-mor row; which, however, was not formally proposed.

Mr. BROWN remarked that the subject of the debate, which he had no disposition to prolong, had no connexion whatever with the main object of the bill. This he deemed a sufficient objection to the proposition as now presented, even if there were no objection on principle. The provision for distribution came intrenched behind the fortification bill; and be deemed this a system of legislation radically wrong, in which two great questions, wholly distinct, were so connected that Senators might be compelled either to take both, or else to lose both together.

SENATE.]

(FEB. 28, 1837.

was now rising, and would probably continue to rise. The rice crop, also, was rather better, though the tobacco was not quite as much; so that the products for export in 1837 might be fairly put down to equal those of 1836. The profits of trade were never higher, and the customs would probably not be less than $25,000,000 or $30,000,000, though in his estimate he had made the customs rather less than last year.

In relation to the revenue from the public lands, Mr. C. had been guided more by the opinions of others who had more experience, and he had set it down at eight or nine millions of dollars. To this was to be added the stock in the United States Bank, which would make an aggregate, for the year, of $42,000,000.

Another objection to the measure was, that it would tend to fix perpetual distribution on the General Government. The distribution law of the last session Mr. B. believed to be judicious, and the lesser of the two evils, one of which was unavoidable. But he would not contribute to the establishment of a system which he considered pernicious. And legislation of this kind, in so quick succession, he thought was calculated to fix the system upon us.

The country, he thought, must feel greatly indebted to their watchful guardians, who were for dividing a surplus among them which had no existence except in imagination. Mr. B. had always supposed that, when a trust had been committed to trustees, they had discharged their duty faithfully when they distributed funds after they had actually accrued. But here gentlemen proposed to execute a trust which had not yet devolved upon them.

But there was another aspect in which the question might be viewed, of great importance to the Union, and especially to the planting States of the South. No system which the advocates of the tariff could devise would be better calculated than this system to perpetuate the tariff. If Congress would give in to the system of annual distribution, this country would not, for years, if ever, be relieved from the tariff system. From the want of time, Mr. B. said he should forego some of the remarks which he had intended to make on this subject. Mr. CALHOUN said the question was now brought to the single point, of what discrimination there was between this bill and the other, and whether this was unwise and that a wise one. Gentlemen admitted that the situation of the banks last year and now was precisely the same. The next point of the Senator from Pennsylvania (for others had followed almost exactly in the track which he had stricken out) was, that when the law of last year was passed, there was a large surplus in the Treasury, while now there was none. But (said Mr. C.) notwithstanding the distribution on the 1st of January last, our Treasury is as full now as it was at that time.

Mr. C. here went into the details of various statements and estimates, to prove this assertion. He made the sum in the Treasury now $42,000,000. The income of the customs last year he said was $21,000,000; which differed by $2,000,000 from his estimate for the present year. The imports, he said, were regulated by the exports, which were now known. The exports of cotton were greater than in the year preceding, and the price

Last year, the reiterated predictions that there would be no surplus had proved to be false. This year they would be equally so. There was a heavy surplus now, and, without extraordinary expenditures, there would be at the end of the year. There were two reasons which he thought decisive in urging at this time the measure of distribution. One was, that if they made no disposition of the surplus, the scenes of last year would be renewed; the banks would loan extravagantly, relying on the surplus as banking capital, and would extend speculation every way and to every thing. This state of things the President himself had denounced; and yet, notwithstanding past experience and these denunciations of the President, we were now told to omit this measure for preventing such a result. The opposite course (Mr. C. said) was the true one. Pass this law now, and it would check extravagance and speculation, and remedy the very disordered state of the currency, which would otherwise be still more disordered. This would meet fully and decisively the two first objects of the Senator from Pennsylvania and of every Senator.

The next argument was, that the passage of the bill would familiarize us to a system of distribution, which might thus be permanently ingrafted on the administration of the Government; whereas distribution ought to be an exception, and not the rule. To this latter proposition Mr. C. agreed most heartily; and no man urged it more than he. He was the first to denounce such a system, and his opinion on this point had undergone no change whatever. It ought to be an exception, and not the rule. His own language was, that it was to be used as medicine, and not as food; and the provisions of this very bill were founded on the disordered condition of the republic. It was in the congestive state, and this bill was intended to remove the obstructions. But the dose must be repeated till the system should become healthy. In Mr. C's opinion, the measure ought to be repeated while the revenue should be going down, till the time of its reduction to the economical wants of the Government. It might require repetition again and again; while the scheme, as a permanent one, would be perfectly absurd. As such, there was not the smallest reason to fear that the people would ever come into it. General Jackson, in two of his messages, had strongly recommended it; but, with all his popularity and power,

even he could not carry it; and nothing but absolute necessity had ever effected the passage of the former bill, or could effect the passage of this; and that this had already passed the House was decisive proof that it was a measure of necessity.

The Senator from Pennsylvania was in favor of reducing the revenue; and so was Mr. C. Early in the session, the Senator from New York and himself passed some words on the subject, and Mr. C. then told him that he had no faith in a reduction at this session, which was difficult at all times, but was now attended with insuperable difficulty. There were then two measures in view, one of which was to reduce the tariff of 1833. Mr. C. thought then there was very little prospect of the passage of such a law, or of a law reducing the revenue from the public lands. Yet, if they would and could reduce, he said, go on and do so. It was now the last day but one, and there was no hope that the bill for redu. cing would pass. The administration majorities in both Houses had failed of reduction. Would they now leave the money in the hands of the banks? Mr. C. trusted they would not. There were now but three alternatives, one of which was to leave the money in the banks. Would Congress do this, receiving only two per cent., and that not on the whole, but only a part of the amount, when it was well known that with them it was at least worth six per cent.? Were they to leave it with the banks, as an instrument for political purposes? Why should gentlemen recommend so extraordinary a course, so unequal, so partial, to avoid returning it to the people to whom it belonged? Why were they so averse to such a distribution? Was it to prevent the people from being corrupted? Were the people alone capable of being corrupted? Were the Government and banks all pure, while the people, the people alone, were corrupt and corruptible? Mr. C. however, would not argue in regard to the State Governments, as he thought they of course must be perfectly safe.

The second alternative (Mr. C. said) was to expend this enormous amount. That had already been contemplated as a dangerous error. In 1828, the income of the Government was raised enormously. We were now about in the commencement of the operation of raising the expenditure, and at the very time when the revenue was going down at about an annual average of $2,000,000 till 1842. Mr. C. thought $12,000,000 or $15,000,000 a most ample provision; especially as the fortifications and other defences being nearly completed, the expenses must be nearly limited to the civil list. The administration of Mr. Monroe was called extravagant in the expenditure of $10,000,000, which was the extreme annual amount. The appropriations then for fortifications and the army were called most extravagant. But now gentlemen could not be contented with less than $20,000,000 or $30,000,000; and at this rate the expenditure would very soon overrun the income. We must then raise the tariff or cut down the expenditure. These sudden vibrations (Mr. C. said) were all wrong. This want of looking forward, this wilful blindness to the future, was wholly unworthy of those who had the management of the republic. The responsibility and the danger was great, if either this bill should be lost, or if a resort should be had to extravagant expenditures.

The last and only remaining alternative was a deposite of the surplus with the States. It was now late in the session, and Mr. C. would not further consume the time; but what he had said was ample to show that there was no material distinction between the case now and that of the year preceding.

Mr. BENTON said, when the distribution bill of the last session was up, it was represented as one operation. But it made way for others. At the next session, he then thought there would be another proposition for

[SENATE.

one year more; at the next, again for two years; and so on, till, finally, the whole scheme would become forever perpetual and eternal. But he had not counted on the good fortune to the country that at this session the friends of the scheme would come forward with a proposition that it should be perpetual. And this matter was calculated to have so much the more favor, as eternity was greater than time. Mr. B. rejoiced that the en. tire magnitude of the proposition now stood revealed. The system (Mr. B. said) of permanent distribution was now avowed openly and aboveboard. Let us go on with the word deposite, and attach it to the harbor bill and every thing else. The word requisition was worn out during the confederacy, and led to the adoption of this Government, which was established for the sole purpose of being independent, with power to call for the money to carry it on. It was now proposed to annihilate the very ground on which the Federal Government was formed. The scheme was disclosed, and there was now no doubt that the high intelligence and incorruptible virtue of the people would look for a dif ferent project.

We had now, then, got a proposition for a permanent distribution, and the surplus was not intended to be appropriated, but to be distributed. And could any one doubt that Congress would not find a perpetual fund? Yes, they would find it. There were interests beyond that would have ample power to back and to bribe them; interests that were cemented together on the ground of resisting appropriations, and of resisting a reduction of the revenue also, and of increasing it from all its sources. They were now for yielding to the act of compromise, throwing around it the sanctity which was now claimed for it. The duty on wine had been already reduced, in contravention of the compromise; and when it should expire, in June, 1842, on the next morning, when Congress would be untied from the obligations in which the act had tied them up, on that very morning of the 1st of July, Congress would instantly restore the protective duties, and fill the Treasury to overflowing, and not with the continual current of a rill across the continent; on that day an act would be passed, compared to which that of 1828 was only a trifle. They would then want $50,000,000 or $100,000,000.

Mr. B., in the midst of some incidental remarks, alluded to the bill of Mr. CALHOUN for ceding the public lands to the States. Where was the person, he asked, who was simple enough to suppose that this proposition for distribution did not surrender that bill, leaving nothing but the bone to support a shadow? The lands that could now be got for $1 25 per acre would in 1842 be raised to $5 and $10 per acre. Let this bill pass, and farewell to that bill; farewell to the extinction of the federal title to lands, in favor of the States; farewell to all graduation of the price of the public lands. If this bill should pass, the Treasury would be kept for the purpose of being ravaged-the spoil of political scramblers, and nothing but a remnant would be left for the immolated victim, the duped and ruined Federal Government. We know the young States are to be devoured by the old, and hence the measure is the more odious to the West. The land bill of Mr. CLAY was far preferable to the measure now presented. That bill gave 12 per cent. of their own carcass to the new States. But this gave not one slice, not even a lick of their own blood.

If driven to the alternative, Mr. B. would take that in preference to this; but, rather than take either, he would place his bat on his head and walk out of the Capitol, never again to behold the inside or outside of its walls. Mr. B. rejoiced that the proposition had been brought forward at this early stage, with the purpose of making it perpetual, habitual, eternal, and that the word